Don's worry about 1066 and all that

Here's your starter for ten: Is 1215 the date of the Magna Carta or the opening time of the Oxford Union bar? Now you might imagine that such a poser wouldn't overtax your average Oxford undergraduate studying for a history degree. But you could just be wrong.

For when it comes to 1066 and all that, it is being claimed that some Oxford students are showing all the thickness of a well-built Norman wall.

Worryingly, the claims about the degrees of ignorance of Oxford's young historians do not come from a red brick university teacher with a chip on each shoulder. Nor are they the ramblings of some embittered northern school head, who has seen too many repeats of Brideshead Revisited.

No, this hugely embarrassing attack has been mounted by the respected Oxford medieval historian Dr John Maddicott, a don who certainly knows how to place a toecap into a codpiece with studied aplomb. According to him, students at Oxford can get through a degree in history, without knowing anything about Magna Carta or the Glorious Revolution. Mention the Black Death and you will get a blank look. Even the Industrial Revolution seems to have passed some of them by, he says.

"What Oxford historians know when they graduate is now largely a matter of bits and pieces," said Dr Maddicott, a fellow at Exeter College. "It cannot be assumed that they have a working knowledge of how their own country evolved."

Thirty years ago the bright young historians coming to Oxford waded through English history from the end of Roman Britain to the mid-20th century. Now it is being suggested the place is filling up with people who might know about witchcraft among the Azande but don't know their Hanoverians from their late Stuarts. But Oxford historians have been quick to rally. Sir John Elliott, Regius Professor Emeritus of Modern History, said: "It seems to me that if you compare the Oxford syllabus with other British universities, it is remarkably coherent, diverse and rich.

"I think a lot of people, like Dr Maddicott, who teach Medieval history are worried about people turning their backs on the Middle Ages. This really is a non-starter. He has been fighting this battle for a long time. "

Latin America specialist Prof Alan Knight, of St Antony's College, said: "In a sense what he says is true, the way the syllabus has changed means students do less English history. You can put together a package where students do not study the Magna Carta and the things he mentions.

"But putting greater emphasis on English history could mean you have students graduating in history who do not know the first thing about Japan, the Chinese Revolution and America." Dr Maddicott's main grievance is that Oxford no longer teaches history in "a continuous way". He said: "The result has been the fragmentation of the syllabus and its transformation into a sort of self-service restaurant, where the menu is exclusively M- la carte and the tables are almost all separate.

"It is now entirely possible to take Schools without ever having encountered Magna Carta or the Reformation or the Revolution of 1688 or the Reform Bill of 1832."

Dr Maddicott, joint editor of the English Historical Review, said yesterday he had been surprised at the fuss his article in the Oxford Magazine has caused. "It is all a great embarrassment to me. It was meant to be a contribution to the debate on the syllabus within the History Faculty."

But then a lot of people around the world are interested in what goes on in Oxford University. Dr Maddicott, you must know that. DATES TO REMEMBER

55BC: The arrival of Julius Caesar to these shores is a good start. An easy one to remember. Old baldy's visit was short but just about unforgettable for all concerned.

787: The Vikings make their first raids and Wantage man Alfred would soon be well on his way to greatness.

1066: The Battle of Stamford Bridge between Harold II and Harold Hardrada, King of Norway - if you want to show off. Otherwise the Battle of Hastings.

1215: King John signs the Magna Carta. Where? - on the bottom!

1314: Big home win for Scotland at Bannockburn. Regularly recalled after embarrassing football defeats.

1485: King Richard III killed at the Battle of Bosworth, conveniently bringing the Middle Ages to a close.

1649: King Charles I loses his head after over-staying his welcome in Oxford. 1688: The Glorious Revolution. A good date, less easy to recall what actually happened.

1745: Bonnie Prince Charlie invades England. But he only got as far as Derby.

1805: Battle of Trafalgar. So big it could yet be the date of an autumn Bank Holiday.

1832: The Reform Bill. Well, Dr Maddicott has it on his list of MUSTS... COURSES MUST BE ATTRACTIVE

The raising of the most famous eyebrow on television, usually says it all.

Each week on University Challenge Jeremy Paxman will ask a students' team what seems to him, and hundreds of thousands at home, a painfully obvious question.

Then the bone-headed reply will leave Jeremy wincing with a "what the hell do they teach you hairy fools, these days?" kind of look.

But that certainly was not the case when the Oxford University's finest, Magdalen College, appeared on the show earlier this year. The Magdalen team, which went on to win the University Challenge title for the

second year in succession, certainly offered little evidence that Oxford students are lacking in the general knowledge department.

Magdalen's television team captain Sarah Fitzpatrick, who is now - appropriately enough - working for the London-based Think Tank Social Market Foundation, had no doubts that Oxford students are as well clued up in history as anything. She said she was heartily sick of stories suggesting Oxonians cannot spell or recall important dates.

"I suppose that making out Oxford people are really stupid, just makes other people feel better," said Sarah, 22, who read English and History while up at Oxford.

She said that the vast bulk of people studying history at Oxford covered English history and the Middle Ages.

The real problem was that of students becoming bored with going over familiar old ground.

"You cannot include everything in one degree. Courses have to be made attractive," she said.

In Sarah's view, winning University Challenge and

being able to recite facts and dates was nothing to do with intelligence.

She said: "It is more about having a capacity for trivia and remembering things."

Converted for the new archive on 30 June 2000. Some images and formatting may have been lost in the conversion.