Oxford's Arab muslims aim to rent old mosque for prayers (From Oxford Mail)
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Oxford's Arab muslims aim to rent old mosque for prayers
7:30am Friday 26th June 2009 in
OXFORD’S Arab Muslims are trying to open a fourth mosque in the city.
The city’s estimated 3,000 strong Arabic population can pray at the Cowley Road Community Centre.
However, it has now become too small too hold the 500 Muslims who want to pray there.
A campaign group called Darussalam (meaning House of Peace) was set up by the Arabic community on Sunday , with the aim of establishing their own mosque and education centre in a £1m scheme.
Dr Hojjat Ramzy, a trustee of Darussalam, said so many Arabic Muslims turned up to pray at the community centre on Fridays, the Muslim holy day, that some had to be turned away.
He said “It is very stressful when Arabic Muslims can’t listen to their own special imam give prayers.
“They are very disappointed when they have to be moved on to other mosques, because they don’t feel part of the same family.”
Although Arabic Muslims are made to feel welcome in the city’s three other mosques, Dr Ramzy, 55, said it was important for the community to have its own mosque as Arabic prayers lasted longer than Pakistani or Bangledeshi versions.
Darussalam favours re-opening the city’s first mosque in Bath Street, off St Clement’s Street in East Oxford, as the property already has permission from the city council to be used as a place of worship.
The mosque has stood empty for about five years since the Central Oxford mosque moved to Manzil Way.
However central mosque chairman Sabir-Hussain Mirza said it had plans to develop the Bath Street site as a women’s Islamic education centre and mosque once Ramadan finished in August.
Mr Mirza, city councillor for Lye Valley, said: “If they choose to build a new mosque I will support them, but I have made it clear to them they have to compete in the market and get their money out of their pocket like we did. All Muslims are our brothers and welcome to pray at the central mosque.”
Dr Ramzy, who has an Iranian background, said he was still hopeful he could persuade the central mosque management committee to let them use Bath Street.
He said: “By the grace of almighty God the central mosque will be willing to rent us the mosque or donate it to us and we can help them raise money for their mosque.
“There are currently three other mosques in the city including the Central mosque, Bengali mosque in Cowley Road and Madina mosque in Stanley Road, East Oxford.
Comments(33)
Harold Onraet Khelf
says...
11:25am Fri 26 Jun 09
Of course, too many cars are a problem: perhaps public transport may be changed to reflect the new needs of Oxford inhabitants?
chavster
says...
12:00pm Fri 26 Jun 09
Harold Onraet Khelf wrote:I believe in the Sun God because if he disappeared tomorrow, everyone would notice. If your "God" disappeared tomorrow, what difference would it make?
Instead of criticising people for whom religion is important, why don't those harsh censors take time to ponder the utter vacuity of their own spiritual "life"? If our western society has rejected the very idea of God, then no wonder some people object to this nonsense! Of course, too many cars are a problem: perhaps public transport may be changed to reflect the new needs of Oxford inhabitants?
And there is no need for anyone to take a car to Bath St Mosque. That whole area is over-served with buses.
patti
says...
12:13pm Fri 26 Jun 09
olfar
says...
1:41pm Fri 26 Jun 09
it a Sunni/Shiah/Wahabi thing? Must try harder to integrate.
Floflo
says...
2:21pm Fri 26 Jun 09
chavster wrote:I have the same problem with people worshiping at the Westgate every Saturday.
Harold Onraet Khelf wrote:I believe in the Sun God because if he disappeared tomorrow, everyone would notice. If your "God" disappeared tomorrow, what difference would it make?
Instead of criticising people for whom religion is important, why don't those harsh censors take time to ponder the utter vacuity of their own spiritual "life"? If our western society has rejected the very idea of God, then no wonder some people object to this nonsense! Of course, too many cars are a problem: perhaps public transport may be changed to reflect the new needs of Oxford inhabitants?
And there is no need for anyone to take a car to Bath St Mosque. That whole area is over-served with buses.
There is no need for anyone to take a car into the city. That whole area is over-served with buses...
DanOxford
says...
5:07pm Fri 26 Jun 09
'The Islamification of the UK continues'
This is factually correct.
This would be a FOURTH Mosque in Oxford, plus the enormous Saudi- backed Islamic Studies centre in Marston road.
There are no Churches in Saudi Arabia.
I'll repeat that:
There are NO churches in Saudi Arabia.
In France they want to ban burkhas.
In Rose Hill, parents objected to halal food being introduced to children's meals without consultation.
Subway and pizza franchises in some areas (of England)have removed pork (salami) from the menu due to the large local Muslim populations.
So I feel it is justified to raise the issue in the open about the Islamification of the UK, as history and other areas have shown that once Muslim populations get to a certain size they make demands that WILL affect EVERYONE else.
The British are known for their tolerance, understanding and welcome towards people who live their lives around the existing British way of doing things, NOT towards actions, intended or otherwise, that fundamentally change the British way of life.
NuLabour's shocking record on immigration from the Third World means that we are rapidly being dragged back to an age of intolerance, superstition and ignorance- not one where incomers are benefitting from our more enlightened attitudes towards universal human rights, equality and rationality.
It' s an absolute joke that one can't challenge a set of beliefs that does not allow it's women to marry outside of itself; does not allow people to leave; does not promote equal opportunities for women; does not believe in rights for homosexuals; does not view other faiths as equal and a multitude of other sins- because- to do so- would be 'intolerant'.
Welcome to NUlabour's Politically Correct straightjacketed Big Brother state, where freedom of speech is a 'crime'.
DanOxford
says...
5:30pm Fri 26 Jun 09
om/watch?v=ttz8-ucWh
Yc
Labour MP Shahid Malik (yes- Shahid 'highest expenses claimed in the Commons' Malik predicts the complete Islamification of Parliament and a Muslim PM within 30 years, 'Allah Willing'.
He said it- not me.
Tom Daily
says...
7:12pm Fri 26 Jun 09
Which means this is the country my parents came to in 1965, its where they made their living, its a country after the devestation of WWII they helped to rebuild, its where they began a family, its where I got my education, where I now make a living and where most likely will be my final resting place!
This is HOME and it's not an option to leave because the shade of colur of my skin is not as white as yours. My home will be here regardless of the tax becoming intolerable and if standard of living hits rock bottom and standard of living becomes alot higher in other parts of the world.
Now to address this article, I totally agree, there is absolutely no need what so ever for another mosque in Oxford. The capacity to hold muslims to pray and worship on Friday is catered for especially with the Manzil Way mosque.
Ramzy seems to have hidden agendas, he was a man I admired once, but now I have my reservations with his directions and aims. He was/is very comfortable and happy praying and standing outside the main mosques of Oxford seeking genourus donations for his Iqra school, but when it comes to those mosques and their imams all of a sudden he is not happy yet he'll have our hard earned cash of us!
This man already has a mammoth battle on his hands to save Iqra school and raise the millions which it will take. What he needs is to concentrate on that and stop creating these divisions by labelling mosques, theres and ours!
If the arab muslims truley need a mosque which they need to label their own then they have one of the biggest Islamic centres/mosques in Europe on the Marston road, use that!
This article has made very sad reading for Muslim especially!
I find it ironic he aspires for an arab mosque yet he himself is an Iranian!
jockox3
says...
8:19pm Fri 26 Jun 09
But I do agree with your overall point. I thought the whole idea of the "Umma" was of a united faith, in all corners of the world. Perhaps like other faiths, its destiny is to fracture on secular nationalistic lines as its adherents spread out of their original geographical bases.
DanOxford
says...
8:23pm Fri 26 Jun 09
As I said- the British have a long tradition of welcoming people who integrate and who go about their lives in a manner that does not seek to fundamentally change the BRITISH way of life.
People who contribute and integrate would not be 'deported' even under a BNP government- who have stated that they would deport foreign CRIMINALS and bogus asylum seekers, and offer money to those who wished to leave in repatriation grants- as NuLabour have been doing for years (see story this week that a scheme costing taxpayers £1 million led to ONE asylum seeker family being helped to go home)
Labour have long given grants to immigrants who have decided to return home- so the great 'shock' about a proposed VOLUNTARY repatriatrion scheme is a load of hypocritical nonsense.
Clearly, some groups have a greater impact on local people than others.
In areas with large Chinese, Hindu or Sikh populations, the BNP vote does not increase.
When large numbers of Muslims are present in an area, the BNP vote significantly increases.
I would suggest that this is because local people in those areas (and this extends beyond whites/ Christians)feel that Islam is not as compatible with their lives as other beliefs.
Despite long traditions of people from other religions settling in the UK, our Socialist Masters have not felt the need to label anyone 'Sikhaphobic', 'Hinduphobic' or any other ludicrous term used to devalue and ostracise anyone who dares object to a set of beliefs (not a race)that they take issue with.
The problem is that SOME people do not value the British way of life and wish to impose their own incompatible beliefs on it- for example by insisting that their children must go to 'special' schools to cater for their 'special' cultural needs.
If I insisted my children went to a school run by white English people for white English people to the exclusion of all others, I would (rightly) be called a 'racist'.
I find it offensive, racist and arrogant that some parents feel that their children should be segregated in this way.
It didn't work in Northern Ireland and it's not working here.
I also wonder if similar motives are behind the need for a 'special' mosque for yet another faction of people who need 'special' arrangements.
The other issue is the sheer numbers involved.
Once numbers reach a certain level, we see time and time again that people do not integrate into the host community but set up their own insular communities.
This is equally true if large numbers of British ex pats settle in an area of Spain, talk English, build pubs and import 'The Sun' and Heinz beans.
A key difference is that British expats are usually retiring or have had their children, whereas Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have the highest UK birth rates so obviously this will have a major impact on future UK demographics.
Would Pakistan or Saudi Arabia actively encourage large numbers of Christians to settle there so that they ceased to be Islamic states?
Of course not- yet that is PRECISELY what Nulabour are doing to the UK.
The opening of a fourth mosque for a different faction of Islam in Oxford signifies to me that numbers are now at a point where fundamental changes are taking place which should be openly addressed.
It's ironic that Britain acts as such a magnet for people Worldwide, yet so many on the Left are ashamed, embarrassed and disinterested in asking WHY, let alone in making ANY attempt to limit the impact of outside forces upon it.
There are plenty of existing Muslim countries people can choose to live in- I don't want to end up living in one without making that choice.
Zaxharias Ziegla
says...
8:23pm Fri 26 Jun 09
Be devils and give us a clue.
DanOxford
says...
8:38pm Fri 26 Jun 09
Zaxharias Ziegla wrote:I repeated it in the first post above.
I didn't actually see it, but what was the problem with Dan's first post? Or is the OM sounding the last post for him? Be devils and give us a clue.
My objection is being 'censored' for making Factually (rather than 'Politically') Correct statements.
If something is true but makes people feel uncomfortable, even more reason to get it out in the open.
The problem is that Nulabour and much of the Left will not address our concerns on the EU, Islam, immigration, foreign workers etc etc etc, but seek to 'shut down the argument' by ignoring us, telling us they know best, censoring us and finally labelling us.
This no longer works because we have access to far more information.
The danger is that if you label anyone you disagree with a 'racist', 'Nazi', 'Islamophobe' etc etc, the crying wolf effect comes into play and the public will view GENUINE cases of racism etc as baseless as the term has been devalued to the point of worthlessness.
Going around shouting 'fire!' at every opportunity is a very dangeros game to play.
DanOxford
says...
8:45pm Fri 26 Jun 09
jockox3 wrote:Islam has many different sects- only recently did the 'hardline' Wahabbism form begin to dominate- this was due to the Saudi's spending billions on promoting the form through the World.
Tom, out of interest, the Marston Rd centre is expressly *not* a mosque. They agreed to that in the planning process - indeed they never asked that it should be a public mosque. It is a college with a prayer room. Now I suppose plenty of our "Christian" colleges have chapels and plenty of local people attend services and no doubt this will be the same with the centre, but I think if it became the centre of a particular congregation questions would probably be asked. But I do agree with your overall point. I thought the whole idea of the "Umma" was of a united faith, in all corners of the world. Perhaps like other faiths, its destiny is to fracture on secular nationalistic lines as its adherents spread out of their original geographical bases.
http://www.pbs.org/w
gbh/pages/frontline/
shows/saudi/analyses
/wahhabism.html
Saudi Arabia has reportedly spent over $70 billion since 1979 on overseas aid, more than two-thirds of it on its campaign to spread Wahhabism across the world. This programme included the founding of thousands of mosques and madrassas (Islamic schools) as well as Islamic centres that have served as support networks for Wahhabi ideology and for Jihadi movements. Funding for the Afghan Jihad was part of this wider campaign, and Saudi charities have funded radical groups and movements as well as educational and social welfare activities across Africa, the Middle East, South and Southeast Asia, the former Soviet Union and the West.
The Saudi drive to spread the Wahhabi form of Islam is channelled through a variety of Islamic organisations and charities controlled by the Saudi government. Among them are the Saudi Fund for Development (SFD); the Muslim World League; the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC); the International Islamic Relief Organisation (IIIRO); the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY); Al-Haramein; Benevolence International Foundation (BIF) and many other private charities operated by wealthy Saudis. The larger organisations and charities are mostly headed by leading members of the Saudi state, often members of the royal family.
http://isic-centre.o
rg/archive-descripti
ve-view/34-briefings
/101-implications-of
-saudi-funding-to-we
stern-academic-insti
tutions-part-1-of-2.
html
Tom Daily
says...
9:18pm Fri 26 Jun 09
The way you write you make a false allegation that white coloured people would not be welcome, but to the contrary they are made very welcome. I personally do not support religous based schools!
Your point about the BNP vote not increasing in areas with large numbers of chinese, sikh, hindu people as you suggest it has done in areas of large numbers of Muslims has everything to do with current worldly events.
With current conflicts involving Islamic countries, which are widely felt as unjustified wars, I believe contriibute to selling the evil Ideoligy that the BNP would have installed in the voters.
Britain was/is and always will be a Christian country, infact the only threat it faces to this is from Britains who are atheist and who now seem to make up the largest group if you like. Why you would have people believe that Islam is here to conquer or impose their views/values on others is beyond me. Do you truely believe with the way the world is balanced now and the way it will be in the future there is a single country which can be conquered? Not even the weakest of places such as Afghanistan could be fully taken over by the vast might of the West.
Pakistani's/Bangalis
/Indians/West Indians etc. etc have been here for; 3, 4 and even 5 generations. The culture we associate with is the British one. Which has nothing to do with what religon we choose to practise.
Religon can not be imposed on anyone, it comes out of choice. You make it seem religon is like a lasso! Let me ask you, can you be convinced into becoming a muslim or a sikh or a hindu? I did'nt think so.
When you talk about they set up their own insular communities then this is true about any country. Take for example Pakistan, you have large areas where christian communities settle, your example of Spain or south of france, Cyprus and so on. Its called one planet and billions of people, very difficult to cut countries of form the world or to break down passages of human beings from moving around.
Now may be a good time to be in the west as was most of last century, but looking forward I can see places such as China, India, Dubai, Qatar, Singapore and other predominantly non white countries becoming the financial hub of the world and you can bet your bottom dollar there will be hundreds of thousands if not millions of white folks migrating over there as they already have began too.
Stop being so paranoid and painting such a doom and gloom picture and lighten up a little.
fazal hussain
says...
10:47pm Fri 26 Jun 09
Dr Hojjat Ramzy’s has hidden agenda of his own and his remarks are very much offensive and painful, especially when implying that Asian Muslims are not good Muslims to his or Arab Muslims standards. It is shame when he say “we Arabs like to hear prayers in our own language. What Dr Ramzy forgets that all prayers are read in Arabic in all three Mosques in Oxford and in rest of the world. It is ridiculous to say that they do not feel at home, they are most welcomed in three Mosques; it is the Arabs brothers who criticise the imams for not being fluent in Arabic. Off course most of the Imams may not be fluent in Arabic language but who is perfect? majority of Arabs living in UK are not fluent in English.
Dr Ramzy have collected donations from three Mosque’s in oxford for his Iqra school (a Iranian version), he did not mention then for not feeling at home. It is well known fact our Arab brothers are good at contributing pub and clubs in the West but they never contributed generously towards the Mosques especially in Oxford. If they have then it has been only loose shrapnel’s. Therefore it is not about re-opening of the Bath Street Mosque? It is an attempt to control and gain free a very valuable property in Oxford. If this action was to have the Mosque re-open? Then Dr Ramzy and his Arab brothers should used different approach to discuss with Mosque committee and the community, instead they began to intimidate and use forcible actions to gain control of the Bath Street Mosque property.
The Arabic speaking community is already near completion ‘Islamic Centre’ one of the biggest in UK on Marston Road, which includes sizeable Mosque to accommodate almost 1000 people.
All Muslims in Oxford are well aware that we would like to redevelop the Bath Street Mosque and have part Mosque and part bMuslim women education centre; we accept that we may have become modest liberal but not liberal enough to welcome women as equals. There will be a time, when Muslim women will become equal in Muslim culture/traditions, but until then? We should provide a place for them to hold traditional and cultural activities in Oxford.
fazal Hussain
Zaxharias Ziegla
says...
11:16pm Fri 26 Jun 09
My poor old bones are now too tired, but if on the morrow I still possess the will and endurance, I'll try my hand at providing some useful advice for PC dhimmis and the generally perplexed.
Tom Daily
says...
12:21am Sat 27 Jun 09
Let me know which parts you need extra help with me ol sunshine!
Tom Daily
says...
12:25am Sat 27 Jun 09
DanOxford
says...
1:51am Sat 27 Jun 09
fazal Hussain
Says it all- one day, possibly, who knows- women may be accepted as equals by these people.
Let's all look forward to that day and not rush them on homosexuals, other faiths, the Jews etc etc...
Tom Daily- no- you can't force people to believe, but you can force people to follow laws based on those beliefs- as we have seen with the Taleban whipping a young girl (the video of which finally woke up the middle class Pakistanis who had romanticised the Taleban)and Muslim women having acid thrown in their faces for wearing make up or not covering their faces.
Islam is a set of beliefs which in its current form is fundamentally incompatible with British life, with human freedoms and dignity and with social and cultural development- as we see in EVERY Country dominated by Islam.
Leave it in Iran, Pakistan, Darfur, Saudi, Somalia etc.
Until recently we in Britain had pretty much got over the shackles of divisive religion- even in Northern Ireland.
Thanks to NuLabour's immigration debacle and Political Correctness doctrine, we have now taken a Great Leap Backward by importing large numbers of people who believe in medieval mumbo jumbo.
There's progress for you.
fozzboy
says...
6:31am Sat 27 Jun 09
DanOxford wrote:Well said my man,i just fear for the future of this country.As for freedom of speech,i can't say what i want to on here because it will be taken off again!!!
'we accept that we may have become modest liberal but not liberal enough to welcome women as equals. There will be a time, when Muslim women will become equal in Muslim culture/traditions, but until then? We should provide a place for them to hold traditional and cultural activities in Oxford.'
fazal Hussain
Says it all- one day, possibly, who knows- women may be accepted as equals by these people.
Let's all look forward to that day and not rush them on homosexuals, other faiths, the Jews etc etc...
Tom Daily- no- you can't force people to believe, but you can force people to follow laws based on those beliefs- as we have seen with the Taleban whipping a young girl (the video of which finally woke up the middle class Pakistanis who had romanticised the Taleban)and Muslim women having acid thrown in their faces for wearing make up or not covering their faces.
Islam is a set of beliefs which in its current form is fundamentally incompatible with British life, with human freedoms and dignity and with social and cultural development- as we see in EVERY Country dominated by Islam.
Leave it in Iran, Pakistan, Darfur, Saudi, Somalia etc.
Until recently we in Britain had pretty much got over the shackles of divisive religion- even in Northern Ireland.
Thanks to NuLabour's immigration debacle and Political Correctness doctrine, we have now taken a Great Leap Backward by importing large numbers of people who believe in medieval mumbo jumbo.
There's progress for you.
Tom Daily
says...
1:23pm Sat 27 Jun 09
Its people like you who does not give women enough credit to mak there own judgment.
In the words of Hargey, who I do not agree with mostly, even he clearly states in the mixed marriage article, that muslim women are becoming increasingly more educated and intelligent, surpassing their male counterparts. This makes me think that women who want to wear whatever clothing they choose to have every right to do so. If its Goth's, hindu women and their sari's, budhists and their maroon robes, muslim women wearing head scarves, kids wearing halloween masks, or even elderly white British ladies who still feel comforable wearing small head coverings or christian nuns who cover their heads, they are entitled to do as they wish. If you dont like it, then dictate this to the females under your direct control and authority and ban it amongst them.
As long as this is a free country then British people can wear what ever they like when they like.
Old zimner
says...
4:26am Sun 28 Jun 09
fozzboy
says...
8:14am Sun 28 Jun 09
Tom Daily
says...
12:17pm Sun 28 Jun 09
However, alcohol is freely available to christian and non muslim citizens and visitors.
So it's not all doom and gloom.
Lets not confuse the issue, what we are talking about is opening a place of worship i.e a mosque in a christian country or a church in a muslim country. Again all religons are free to have there places of worship and hold religous ceremonies in Pakistan. The second biggest temple in the sikh religon is in Pakistan, there are many churches, hindu temples and indeed sinagogues there too.
Saudi arabia is totaly different as unlike Pakistan it is not a democracy but a dictatorship. They allow nothing.
Even in Iran, the parliament have seats specificaly for the jewish and christian minorities!
So lets not work ourselves into a frenzy and calm down a wee bit.
fozzboy
says...
4:09pm Sun 28 Jun 09
Tom Daily
says...
10:52pm Sun 28 Jun 09
Thats why I say do not confuse a democratic country with a non democratic one. There is total religous freedom in Pakistan as there is in Iran too, and what the west do not want people to know is the most religously free countries in the mid east were Palestine and Iraq under Saddam and Arafat.
Pakistan has had chritian cricketers playing for its national side, currently a hindu player too.
locodogz
says...
10:42am Mon 29 Jun 09
"
Tom Daily- no- you can't force people to believe, but you can force people to follow laws based on those beliefs- as we have seen with the Taleban whipping a young girl (the video of which finally woke up the middle class Pakistanis who had romanticised the Taleban)and Muslim women having acid thrown in their faces for wearing make up or not covering their faces."
I'm not sure that it's law anywhere to throw acid over women for inappropriate attire? And to tar all the many millions who choose Islam as their faith with the actions of a handful of fanatics - well thats akin to suggesting that all BNP sympathisers would go around kicking the s**t out of innocent people because of the colour of their skin.....
chavster
says...
12:47pm Mon 29 Jun 09
Tom Daily wrote:Would you like to comment on the official punishment in "democratic" Pakistan for (a) leaving Islam (b) insulting Islam. Then rationalise this with your statement that "there is total religious freedom in Pakistan"! Is this the kind of religious "freedom" we wish to see anyone in this country to have?
Of course there is! what planet you on Fozzboy. There is a sizeable christian minority in Pakistan where do you think they go to worship? In Pakistan the country joins in with events such as Christmas, they call it the big day! Thats why I say do not confuse a democratic country with a non democratic one. There is total religous freedom in Pakistan as there is in Iran too, and what the west do not want people to know is the most religously free countries in the mid east were Palestine and Iraq under Saddam and Arafat. Pakistan has had chritian cricketers playing for its national side, currently a hindu player too.
chavster
says...
1:06pm Mon 29 Jun 09
people there having voted 90% for secular parties. The Pakistan parliament voted unanimously to impose sharia law - women forced into burqas , hand chopping, etc." Any more examples of Islamic countries as shining examples of tolerance??
Zaxharias Ziegla
says...
3:17pm Mon 29 Jun 09
So, to what extent do Muslims read the Quran? And even more do they understand its endless repetitions (the story of Moses and Pharaoh is told 39 times in the original), and its progress from conciliatory words - which moderate Muslims seize on as a message of love - to demands for violent conquest of enemies (all those outside the Umma) and bitterness towards them? It ends with proscriptions for cruel and degrading punishments for transgressors, some convicted of quite minor offences, and often based on scant evidence.
If Tom Daily thinks becoming a Muslim is like joining a lending library, a cycling club, or whatever, he should think again. Islam - as Hegel the great German philosopher once remarked of Prussian bureaucracy - is a charmed circle no one ever leaves. Well apart from a few brave souls, and they're in hiding for life. The tergiversation, non-sequiturs and naive exaggeration, something presumably meant to throw infidels off the scent, make it virtually impossible to conduct any meaningful discussion with TD. To what extent non-Muslim groups are free to practice their religions in Pakistan is a moot point. As they only make up some three percent of the population, toleration should be easy, yet they have encountered numerous attacks ever since Partition.
British people generally have little understanding of Islam, and tend to see it as just another religion to be accepted or ignored. But it seems reasonable to assume that most do not wish to see several thousand years of their history wiped away. So it would make sense to use some of their time in gaining an understanding of Islam.
Overall, there seems little chance of convincing any but a very small handful of Muslims that Islam might just perhaps be a tiny bit wrong. More important, let's hope increasing numbers of british people get to know about Islam.
The best place to start is citizenwarrior.com. But, as they used to say at the end of the old BBC TV Crimewatch programme, don't have nightmares.
Tom Daily
says...
8:42pm Mon 29 Jun 09
what you say about Taliban, remember this, Taliban is the creation of not only Pakistan, but U.S and Britain also. It's not quite as simple for Pakistan to walk away as it was for the Americans and Brits to walk of into the sunset after having pumped billions into creating this lethal and highly effective fighting force. Which was in essence a group of people in a country whose sole purpose was to fight without feeling, fear or mercy until the bitter end! What ever Taliban is now it's not only the Pakistani' who are responsible.
As far as giving into them is concerned, then the Pakistani's know full well taking them on could be a conflict which lasts decades cost billions and millions in lost lives, do you think the Amercians have the appettite to help or us the BRits for that matter. I think not! So lets not be too harsh on a country which has bent over backwards in assisting the West on every occasion.
The muslim people of Pakistan dont aspire to the laws of the Taliban, why do you think the whole country, including the tribal religous conservatives have all grouped together in taking them on?
The clip about the 17 year old girl being whipped, do you have any idea how much outrage that caused amongst each and every one in the country? it played a huge part in the war going on in Pakistan as we write.
Pakistan under Zhardari is the most secular president to ever have ruled over the country and for him to have offered the deal to Taliban to take swat valley was fairly simmilar to the British stance to Hitler to avert WWII. As the Taliban quickly showed their true colours the war was waged. Do you think the country can afford the war? but they have to go through with it. The interesting think is to see how much assistance the west gives them in dealing with this problem which they also help create.
Zaxharias, christians make up 3% of the population of Pakistan, how big of a population of Britain is made up of muslims? you seem to make out its about a third, half or even the majority! infact its 2.8%!
The Quran is written in Arabic. All muslims are taught to read arabic and the Quran is available in translation in every language, so there is not much of a problem there.
If you look down on a religon then your mind is set and there is no conving you other wise, so for that reason...all the best! you just crack on with the way you are set! But rememebr this there was no such thing as a muslim terrorist or Islamic fundamentalist before Palestine was stolen from the people of that country and given to others.
Over and out!
chavster
says...
8:08pm Tue 30 Jun 09
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Hojjat Ramzy, left, with fellow worshippers outside the Bath Street building, which was the city’s first mosque
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fozzboy says...
10:24am Fri 26 Jun 09