Oxford's electric motorists can refuel free (From Oxford Mail)

Who is paying for this? Taxpayers should not be subsidising this.
Electric cars are not currently very 'green' given the way they are manufactured, the way our electricity is generated, and the environmental cost of current battery technology.

Discrimination...

As a driver of a 'normal' vehicle I would like to know where my free fuel points are so I can top up the car when in Oxford or MK and not be discriminated against.

I really, really hope that the Taxpayers are not subsidising this in any way, shape or form. And a decent (profitable) ground rent to cover the siting of these DISCRIMINATORY FREE FUEL points is being charge by the council (who I assume ultimatly own the carparks).

A very, VERY unhappy local council tax payer.

Are these available in the Westgate carpark ? If so, then I would say that at the ridiculous rate they charge, 3 hours parked there probably costs more than it costs to charge the car anyway, so its hardly free !

WHOSE PAYING FOR THIS , us the poor council taxpayers again?, and yes what do ordinary 'fuel' users get NOTHING where are our free top ups . Well done the council again take take take.

In reply to the other posters questioning this, bare in mind that a reduction in the pollution emitted by petrol and diesel vehicles is a major benefit to the health and well being of people, in particular the young. It has been proven in many studies (in particular in Los Angeles and London) that the particulates that are emitted from non electric vehicles not only cause long term health problems (even if not immediately apparent), but also reduce the life expectancy of young people due to the build up of such pollutants in the blood. I am more than happy for my taxes to help fund such initiatives. Either way, electric (from sustainable sources once it is practical), is the way forward.

@lifemachine

Oflife wrote:
In reply to the other posters questioning this, bare in mind that a reduction in the pollution emitted by petrol and diesel vehicles is a major benefit to the health and well being of people, in particular the young. It has been proven in many studies (in particular in Los Angeles and London) that the particulates that are emitted from non electric vehicles not only cause long term health problems (even if not immediately apparent), but also reduce the life expectancy of young people due to the build up of such pollutants in the blood. I am more than happy for my taxes to help fund such initiatives. Either way, electric (from sustainable sources once it is practical), is the way forward.

@lifemachine

That may well be the case, but what is the point of encouraging a few car users to switc to this kind of vehicle, when there about a million buses in Oxford ? I can pretty much guarantee that the bus I was stuck behing in Cowley Road last night will cancel out any benefits from the "at least 40 Mini E cars being driven in and around the city", probably for the next 10 years.

As an electric car driver I am obviously biased, but how someone who drives a fossil burning car can complain about 'being hard done by' when our entire country, economy and a large amount of our debt is due to their determination not to change is a little bit hard to swallow.
The introduction of disruptive technology has always been met with stern resistance, people commenting here don't want things to change, they want to continue using outdated, inefficient technology originally developed in the steam age.
And of course electric cars are not 'green' or 'eco.' The only people who would apply those terms to electric cars are people dedicated to stopping them develop, oil companies, Jeremy Clarkson etc.
Electric cars are cars, made in factories like Cowley, they just happen to be cars which will last longer, require less maintenance, can be charged from a wide variety of sources, don't require us to import many billions of £ of crude oil every day, don't require us to invade countries that won't sell us oil as cheaply as we demand, which costs so much more of your tax than a few re-charge posts in a park and ride ever will.
And finally the tired old totally false argument that an electric car charged from burning coal is just as dirty as a diesel truck needs to be addressed. This is nonsense. a report last year from the Royal Institute of Engineers stated that when charged from the UK national grid (33% coal) an electric car emits around 40 grams of Co2 per kilometre. Find me a 'super eco diesel or hyper mile petrol car than is anywhere near that.

Reading the above comments I am left wondering if their were similar moans from the taxpayers of 100 years or so ago about the cost of tarmaccing roads for 'those new-fangled motor cars'. They all probably thought that petrol driven cars were a fad and that the horse and carriage was here to stay. had they got their way we would still be driving over cobbles and mud tracks. Times change and we need to change with them. I think that almost anything that discourages people from belching out poison into the air in our city centre is a good thing. In another 100 years perhaps the owners of electric cars will be moaning about the next generation of transport. La plus ca change, la plus ca meme chose.

Robert Ll wrote:
As an electric car driver I am obviously biased, but how someone who drives a fossil burning car can complain about 'being hard done by' when our entire country, economy and a large amount of our debt is due to their determination not to change is a little bit hard to swallow.
The introduction of disruptive technology has always been met with stern resistance, people commenting here don't want things to change, they want to continue using outdated, inefficient technology originally developed in the steam age.
And of course electric cars are not 'green' or 'eco.' The only people who would apply those terms to electric cars are people dedicated to stopping them develop, oil companies, Jeremy Clarkson etc.
Electric cars are cars, made in factories like Cowley, they just happen to be cars which will last longer, require less maintenance, can be charged from a wide variety of sources, don't require us to import many billions of £ of crude oil every day, don't require us to invade countries that won't sell us oil as cheaply as we demand, which costs so much more of your tax than a few re-charge posts in a park and ride ever will.
And finally the tired old totally false argument that an electric car charged from burning coal is just as dirty as a diesel truck needs to be addressed. This is nonsense. a report last year from the Royal Institute of Engineers stated that when charged from the UK national grid (33% coal) an electric car emits around 40 grams of Co2 per kilometre. Find me a 'super eco diesel or hyper mile petrol car than is anywhere near that.

First of all, lets face it Electric cars are cr@p at the moment, with a range of less than 100 miles, if it is a bit cold outside, you want to up a few hills and want to travel at more than walking pace. Secondly, where is the £billions in lost revenue going to come from, if as you advocate we stop driving petrol/diesel cars, will the tax on Electricity go up to the rate of fuel now, or the basic rate of income tax to 40%.?

Still plenty of Luddites about in the OM area then.
The electric car movement has to start somewhere, why not with these points?
As for all you petrol guzzlers not even one of your 'millions of oxford buses will run once the petrol and diesel has run out.
Face up to your responsibilities for your kids sake.
No, I'm not a liberal tree hugger, just a realist.

oxfordborn wrote:
Still plenty of Luddites about in the OM area then.
The electric car movement has to start somewhere, why not with these points?
As for all you petrol guzzlers not even one of your 'millions of oxford buses will run once the petrol and diesel has run out.
Face up to your responsibilities for your kids sake.
No, I'm not a liberal tree hugger, just a realist.

Well, the electric cars are either going to require some fossil fuel to generate the electricity (shift the pollution to Didcot! Hurray), or only get charged if the wind/sun are doing the right thing.

Or maybe nuclear?... don't hold your breath.

As electric cars are no good for long journeys I suspect most of the people using them also have a petrol or diesel car and enough money to be able to own 2 cars. Hence most of the people being subsidised by free charging of electric cars are probably financially better off than most council tax payers who presumably are providing the subsidy. If so this is wrong and in any case people who are able to run 2 cars, one of which is an expensive electric car should well be able to pay for their own electricity.

Electric cars = good.
Battery powered cars = bad.

Hydrogen fuel-cell cars are the answer to the battery and range problems, just look at the Honda FCX which is in production now and can do ~240 miles per tank - and "recharging" takes as long as it does to fill a car with petrol.

http://automobiles.h
onda.com/fcx-clarity
/

Isn't it amazing! No wonder they call it 'green'. Many supporters are exactly that!

BMW has not even confirmed that it will put the MINI E into production. It is currently only being tested.

The whole point missed by those 'green' (and aren't they such!) protagonists, is business such as electricity companies, NEVER give anything away for free. If you think they are, you are really naive.

Currently a BBC journalist is attempting to do a London to Scotland run in a MINI E. I have been following it.

Guess what?
Planning his journey he needed to know how many charge points are available and where. Especially as electric cars like his that are said to be capable of 100 plus miles become 'anxious'(ha ha) when around 70 miles or so is reached. Arrghhh, I need some juice!

It is thought ('thought' being the operative word!) that there may be as many as 500 charge points dotted around the UK.

Would you believe, no-one has actually added them up.

Even OLEV, yes, the official Government Office for Low Emission Vehicles, hasn't a clue, not a clue, as to how many or where they are!
Oh bloody dear.
WE are paying for these incompetents!

Probably because, as with everything in this 'once great' country, they are owned by foreign companies, such as EDF. For naive fools, probably 'green' fools, who think EDF is British, it stands for Electricite de Francais... so now you know where your money is going!

At one charge point in Nottingham he was surrounded (when he managed to find the point!) by lots of people. He was told it was the first occasion any electric vehicle had used the point since it was installed 3 years ago!
Talk about priorities, oh dear.

Well good for those getting a 'free' boost, get it while you can. Petrol driven vehicles did not exist in the steam age, steam engines existed then. The internal combustion engine uses a very efficient high energy fuel which allows for a good range and speed, if it didn't we wouldn't use it. Extensive use of battery storage cars would likely see us declaring war on countries that have copper and such like but will not sell it to us. Battery technology, much as it has advanced will likely be eclipsed by fuel cells. Now let us look at the infrastructure; Existing combustion is fully served, as one would expect. Both fuel cell hydrogen vehicles and battery powered vehicles require electricty to top up, one takes you hours the other takes no longer than a usual fuel stop having made the hydrogen using electricity. As if by magic we all wake up tomorrow with electric cars to suit and the filling stations have charge points and hydrogen, the electricity comes from? I believe I saw the figure of 330 nuclear plants once upon a time, it'll be a while, let's hope we can get fusion working. To put in context renewables and conventional power. Visit Goonhilly, look over the vast array of communication dishes there, ask if they're plugged into the wind farm extending over the horizion in the event of grid failure. The response elicited is a choked back laugh, a pointing out of a garage size building and the statement of "That's where we keep the gas turbine, if the power goes out we use that, even if the wind is blowing that vast farm can't supply us with 10% of what we need." When we take what we've been running on the past 100 odd years away, we have a real problem looming, wind and solar and wave will play a part, but be aware it leaves a vast hole, add transport into the mix and pretty much all you see is the hole.

Oflife wrote:
In reply to the other posters questioning this, bare in mind that a reduction in the pollution emitted by petrol and diesel vehicles is a major benefit to the health and well being of people, in particular the young. It has been proven in many studies (in particular in Los Angeles and London) that the particulates that are emitted from non electric vehicles not only cause long term health problems (even if not immediately apparent), but also reduce the life expectancy of young people due to the build up of such pollutants in the blood. I am more than happy for my taxes to help fund such initiatives. Either way, electric (from sustainable sources once it is practical), is the way forward. @lifemachine

let me ask you a question. how is electricity made? is it a) we burn loads of fossil fuel to power turbines. b) we employ rats to run in wheels deep underground which is why you don't see them in the day c) the green fairies come and give it us.

here's another brain curler. how are cars made? is it a) with the help of huge power hungry factories and robots with toxic levels of paint and multiple plastic and metal parts being welded together b) in jelly moulds c) the fairies deliver them.

If you answered A then give yourself a pat on the back, now answer me this. who is paying for all this electricity and what is the CO2 output of generated enough electricity to 'fuel' these cars for their 155 mile range?

yentiw wrote:
Isn't it amazing! No wonder they call it 'green'. Many supporters are exactly that!

BMW has not even confirmed that it will put the MINI E into production. It is currently only being tested.

The whole point missed by those 'green' (and aren't they such!) protagonists, is business such as electricity companies, NEVER give anything away for free. If you think they are, you are really naive.

Currently a BBC journalist is attempting to do a London to Scotland run in a MINI E. I have been following it.

Guess what?
Planning his journey he needed to know how many charge points are available and where. Especially as electric cars like his that are said to be capable of 100 plus miles become 'anxious'(ha ha) when around 70 miles or so is reached. Arrghhh, I need some juice!

It is thought ('thought' being the operative word!) that there may be as many as 500 charge points dotted around the UK.

Would you believe, no-one has actually added them up.

Even OLEV, yes, the official Government Office for Low Emission Vehicles, hasn't a clue, not a clue, as to how many or where they are!
Oh bloody dear.
WE are paying for these incompetents!

Probably because, as with everything in this 'once great' country, they are owned by foreign companies, such as EDF. For naive fools, probably 'green' fools, who think EDF is British, it stands for Electricite de Francais... so now you know where your money is going!

At one charge point in Nottingham he was surrounded (when he managed to find the point!) by lots of people. He was told it was the first occasion any electric vehicle had used the point since it was installed 3 years ago!
Talk about priorities, oh dear.

The BBC journalist did finish his journey, he arrived in Edinburgh on Friday (thanks to a new top up point in Berwick otherwise he would not have made it) from the time he left London to arriving in Edinburgh the average speed was 6 MPH. Electric cars wow, way to go eh. Funny the O.M. didn't report that.