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Survey backs 20mph limit across city

6:00am Thursday 30th October 2008

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People in Oxford overwhelmingly back the idea of 20mph speed limits, a survey published today shows.

The county council ordered the consultation after proposing to spend up to £300,000 on installing 20mph signs on residential roads in Oxford and some sections of A and B roads.

More than 570 responded by filling in forms and sending emails, with 400 more attending public meetings held during September and October. As nearly two thirds of those surveyed were in favour, a 20mph scheme is likely to be introduced in the summer.

James Styring, of the cycling group Cyclox, said: "It is a great news. The real battleground will now be the arterial roads.

"From the cyclists' point of view, it would be good if all roads within the ring road had the same 20mph speed limit, rather than just residential areas and high-volume roads."

Corinne Grimley Evans, joint co-ordinator of the Life Begins at 20 group, called the results "impressive" but added: "We need something simpler."

But Mark McArthur-Christie, director of the Oxford based Transport think tank, Forward, said: "Low speeds are desirable in urban areas, but these 20mph limits won't bring them about. It is a most ineffective way to get people to drive more slowly."

The show of public support came as the Government signalled its readiness to give local transport officers new power to cut speed limits to 20mph. Transport minister Jim Fitzpatrick said he agreed with an MPs report calling for lower speed limits to be introduced more widely.

Ian Hudspeth, county councillor cabinet minister for Transport, said: "We now need to go away and examine in detail what people have said to us. It seems that the majority of people are in favour of what we have proposed.

"We have received a lot of comments, however, and we will analyse and consider whether we need to modify detail in places."

A second consultation should now be held early next year.

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jamiek, cumnor says...
7:18am Thu 30 Oct 08

570 surveyed.whow thats a good percentage!!! on your bike councillors!!

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Sid Hunt, says...
7:25am Thu 30 Oct 08

Where did the survey take place? I live on one of the roads that 20mph is proposed for but I have never been asked for a view - nor have my neighbours.

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GaryOxford, Oxford says...
8:20am Thu 30 Oct 08

570 people responded and filled in forms, nearly 2/3 were in favour of reducing the speed limit. So that's 380 maximum out of how many thousand people living in the affected area? Also bear in mind that there are several activist groups in favour of the limit who will have got their members to fill in surveys in great numbers.
Taking both of these into account, a very low sample count which is clearly biased, does not make for accurate statistics and cannot be said to represent the majority.
If the County Council really wanted to consult the people they would have done it properly. Most people knew this 'consultation' was a sham and now they've been proved right. The council will try to bully their way through as they always do.
Ian Hudspeth and his cronies know that there are real problems with the transport system in Oxford, but instead of attmepting to fix them they go for gimics like the 20mph limit.

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cottage2day, Oxford says...
8:56am Thu 30 Oct 08

dont they see that 20mph will just cause more traffic and reduce flow. And they moan about congestion as it is. I HATE the government

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BIGGER, oxford says...
8:56am Thu 30 Oct 08

20 MILES AN HOUR ? THAT HELLISHLY HIGH RECKLESS SPEED HAS NOT BEEN ACHEIVED IN OXFORD FOR CENTURIES!!!!

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BigAlan, Eynsham says...
10:25am Thu 30 Oct 08

20mph would cause more accidents with the frustration motorists would be faced with, 30mph is the correct speeds apart from school area's. Before the council take a minority view they should poll every household rather then people who have nothing to do during the day, as for James Styring and his Oxfrod Mail rants he needs to get a grip on reality, when cyclists pay there way then they can have a say, until then it's left to us motorists to pay.

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BIGGER, oxford says...
10:27am Thu 30 Oct 08

WELL SAID BIGALAN. WHO PAYS FOR THE GREEN CYCLE LANES WHAT THE CYCLISTS TOTALLY IGNORE?

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Floflo, Oxford says...
10:53am Thu 30 Oct 08

BIGGER wrote:
WELL SAID BIGALAN. WHO PAYS FOR THE GREEN CYCLE LANES WHAT THE CYCLISTS TOTALLY IGNORE?
They come out of general taxation, in a similar way to motorway spending. Recent big increases in dedicated cycle spending brings it to around £75 million a year.

This equates to around 3 miles of the current 51 miles of the M6 road widening project.

Next to the current 10 billion road building project cycle spending is nothing.

With next to no money available to build decent cycle paths they are generally not worth using. This is why they are ignored.

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SNJ, Oxford says...
11:28am Thu 30 Oct 08

Why is everyone willing to give their views on the Oxford Mail website when it is too late, but ignore all consultations?

Everyone was invited to give their views: it isn't the city council's fault that only 578 people replied.

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jockox3, Headington Hill, Oxford says...
12:03pm Thu 30 Oct 08

I didn't receive any survey. Who was supposed to get it? Did anyone mention the scientific *fact* that the air will be sucked out of your lungs at more than 20mph?

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GaryOxford, Oxford says...
12:36pm Thu 30 Oct 08

Floflo wrote:
BIGGER wrote:
WELL SAID BIGALAN. WHO PAYS FOR THE GREEN CYCLE LANES WHAT THE CYCLISTS TOTALLY IGNORE?
They come out of general taxation, in a similar way to motorway spending. Recent big increases in dedicated cycle spending brings it to around £75 million a year.

This equates to around 3 miles of the current 51 miles of the M6 road widening project.

Next to the current 10 billion road building project cycle spending is nothing.

With next to no money available to build decent cycle paths they are generally not worth using. This is why they are ignored.
Hi Floflo, I take it you are a cyclist? The council are proposing to spend £300,000 on the 20mph limit scheme. As someone who I assume cycles in Oxford would you prefer that this money is spent on building proper cycle lanes? Not the current mediocre efforts such as painting a white line down Abingdon road and pretending that's a cycle lane.
I used to cycle regularly down Abingdon road and about 5 years ago a motorist doing less than 20mph side swiped me when they drove into the cycle lane. I would put this down to the inattention of the driver and not the speed of the car.
I really object to the 20mph limit because it won't do anything it promises. The county council are trying to ignore the real problems and paper over the cracks with attention grabbing headlines which they then try to back up with surveys that have no statistical relevance and claim that they have public support when they don't.

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Floflo, Oxford says...
12:57pm Thu 30 Oct 08

Gary, you were lucky that the driver was doing 20, and not 30 where the impact would have been much greater... p = m • v.

Also loose attention for 2 seconds at 20mph and you have covered 17 metres. Loose attention at 30mph and you have covered 26 metres.

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cottage2day, Oxford says...
1:15pm Thu 30 Oct 08

SNJ wrote:
Why is everyone willing to give their views on the Oxford Mail website when it is too late, but ignore all consultations? Everyone was invited to give their views: it isn't the city council's fault that only 578 people replied.
i never received anything.

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BigAlan, Eynsham says...
1:38pm Thu 30 Oct 08

It's not just the people who live in the area's who need asking, its everyone who uses the roads, yes including cyclists, were all trying to go about our way happily and safely, but 20mph is crazy, even on my motorbike thats 2nd gear, in my car also 2nd, think of the extra fuel it would use up keeping more motorised vehicles on the road because were going slower, i thought the idea was to get cars off the road, this way we will be on them all day.

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bifocal bill, oxford says...
1:45pm Thu 30 Oct 08

taxi drivers will love it more money for them

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GaryOxford, Oxford says...
2:00pm Thu 30 Oct 08

Floflo wrote:
Gary, you were lucky that the driver was doing 20, and not 30 where the impact would have been much greater... p = m • v.

Also loose attention for 2 seconds at 20mph and you have covered 17 metres. Loose attention at 30mph and you have covered 26 metres.
Hi Floflo, in my case, you would need to look at their sideways velocity rather than their forward velocity. As I was cycling along they were going about the same speed as I but moved over into the cycle lane, their left hand side hit my right hand side.
My point was that £300,000 could provide some decent cycle lanes and avoid an accident, rather than an eye-catching but ultimately futile gesture. My second point was that the survey does not show that people overwhelming support the scheme. ~570 people replied, of which nearly 2/3s agreed with the 20mph limit, that is ~380 maximum. The population of Oxford is about 150,000. So 380 people out of 150,000 wanted the 20mph limit, or 0.25%, that is not overwhelming support.
The council want to force this through, they carry out pointless surveys designed to give them the answer they want and then pretend that it is the view of the majority.
If they wanted to find out real opinion they would have used a polling organisation who would have asked a larger number of people, chosen at random, what they thought by asking non-leading questions.

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GreenOxford, Oxford says...
2:12pm Thu 30 Oct 08

As a non-driving pedestrian and cyclist, I do not support the change to a 20mph zone throughout the city. I do not agree that it will reduce accidents, nor to I agree that it is better for the environment. I do, however, support the proper teaching of road safety to all children from a young age, and the proper training of new bicycle users. Road safety is not just the responsibility of motorists.

(I received no survey either, btw)

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Floflo, Oxford says...
2:39pm Thu 30 Oct 08

The introduction of compulsory wearing of seatbelts, drink drive limits and speed limits on motorways were not popular.

Gary, £300,000 is not a lot of money for the council. It would be difficult to make a new cycle path from scratch with that. However with 20mph limits there will be less need for cycle paths as roads will be safer for all to use.

The lower limit will also save a lot of fuel. It's the acceleration and braking that uses most fuel. 20 mph will lead to more constant speeds and less stop start and more economical driving.

If I do ever reach 30 mph driving in this city it's only for a few seconds before I have to slow right down again.


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BigAlan, Eynsham says...
2:47pm Thu 30 Oct 08

Floflo wrote:
The introduction of compulsory wearing of seatbelts, drink drive limits and speed limits on motorways were not popular. Gary, £300,000 is not a lot of money for the council. It would be difficult to make a new cycle path from scratch with that. However with 20mph limits there will be less need for cycle paths as roads will be safer for all to use. The lower limit will also save a lot of fuel. It's the acceleration and braking that uses most fuel. 20 mph will lead to more constant speeds and less stop start and more economical driving. If I do ever reach 30 mph driving in this city it's only for a few seconds before I have to slow right down again.
£300,000 is a fortune to a council who had money in Iceland, its no small banana for anyone actually, and with regard to speed Swindon are doing away with the camera's and speding the money in other educational ways, Portsmouth as well, 20mph is no good to the majority, thats who we have to please, not the minority.

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Floflo, Oxford says...
3:18pm Thu 30 Oct 08

BigAlan. The majority voted in Hitler and listen to Coleplay.

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Fruit_Bat, Cartertown says...
4:16pm Thu 30 Oct 08

20mph and bendy buses....
Hmmm that'll help

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Fruit_Bat, Cartertown says...
4:17pm Thu 30 Oct 08

Floflo wrote:
BigAlan. The majority voted in Hitler and listen to Coleplay.
Wot a 'James Blunt'

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GaryOxford, Oxford says...
4:53pm Thu 30 Oct 08

Floflo wrote:
BigAlan. The majority voted in Hitler and listen to Coleplay.
Actually the people of Germany never gave Hitler an absolute majority needed for power. His party had the largest number of seats in the German parliament and used that to enable them to take power through the German party.
Although there are some parallels with the way Oxfordshire County Council operate, it's hardly the same.

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Ken Weavers, Headington says...
9:38pm Sat 1 Nov 08

I should like to take issue with Reg Little's leader article, which in the first paragraph says "People in Oxford overwhelmingly back the idea of 20mph speed limits", but in the third paragraph he writes "nearly two thirds of those surveyed were in favour". How can nearly two thirds be overwhelming? These seems a blatant attempt to mislead your readers by using wholly exaggerated, inaccurate wording.

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harrycole, headington says...
11:20pm Mon 3 Nov 08

I have just moved to Oxford and I have to say that the transport is a total disgrace here. Rush hours seem to last 3 hours morning and afternoon and the cyclists! Evil little people with the sole mission to ruin any commute.

20mph will be the final nail in the coffin for oxfords roads. Or it would be if people actually stuck to it. Next time there is nobody behind you (if you are out at 5 in the morning or something) try driving 20mph. In most cars, third wont pull well (ruining the catalyst converter) and 2nd will rev too high, nackering the engine and gearbox and slaughtering fuel economy. Plus it is just too slow. Therefore nobody will stick to it. People have imposed unrealisticly low speed limits before, see how drive 55 turned out in the USA. 85% noncompliance, similar to the figure in the new 20mph zone in portsmouth.

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