Christmas market off after move is rejected (From Oxford Mail)

“The Christmas market wouldn’t benefit us.”

It's all about you is it? Know that for sure do you? I don't think so.

Oxford has a reputation for being very poor for shopping. People are increasingly going elsewhere. Surely it would be more constructive if all of these businesses worked together. So, have the market in Broad Street and maybe have your own stall too if you're in Broad Street. Or maybe there should be some rules over competition? I do not see a valid argument against this market here, all I see is a risk presented by our council on behalf of a largely unknown group of traders.

I would think the opposite is true, that a Christmas market would attract more people and therefore more opportunity for these businesses!

Wait a moment though.

Oxford City Council are not being transparent and accountable here I don't think.

They claim "lack of support" from businesses and traders on Broad Street but only 1 of them has been quoted.

The other business quoted is actually for the plans!

What does "lack of support" mean?

In it's most basic definition I suggest it mean lack of support, that doesn't mean "against"!

So is it really lack of support or is it that the businesses are pro-actively against the plans? The 2 things are different.

This whole thing is very misleading, particularly the quote from Graham Jones.

Hang on, isn't Graham Jones also on the council?!

I'm seeing people presenting a risk and I'm seeing people saying that there isn't a strong enough case.

Dealing with the risk:

The risk is that the market brings in more people to shop in Oxford but those people or some of those people are distracted from looking in the shops because they are too busy looking at the stalls.

So that a risk to the existing businesses in the form of money. I don't think it's a risk to quality or time. Just money.

First of all, if the market brings in extra shoppers and those shoppers don't go to the shops, only the stalls. Then the shops haven't actually lost anything because without the market those extra shoppers would not have been there.

I think this risk is very unlikely to become an issue, it's based on an unsafe assumption.

I think the more likely scenario is that the market would bring in extra shoppers and a percentage of those shoppers will also visit the shops as well as the stalls. So long as people can't get goods from the stalls cheaper than they can get from the shops. If I had a business in broad street I think I'd be inclined to support the market and also open my own stall to cover both bases. Get my branding and marketing in amongst the market and direct people to my shop.

Thinking about shoppers' behaviour I also suggest that people tend to go into Oxford to visit certain shops anyway. Especially Broad Street. So often people will head into town to go to Boswells for example. On that basis there's unlikely to be a risk so long as people can't get what they were going to buy from Boswells, at the market, or so long as Boswells has a market stall.

These traders aren't here for the long haul they just cherrypick the profitable trading.

Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.

Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.

Or has this got something to do with parking and the council are neglecting to mention it?

xjohnx wrote:
These traders aren't here for the long haul they just cherrypick the profitable trading.

Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.

Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.

The traders are invited to come from Europe, and other countries, because Christmas means more to them than sitting in front of the TV, whilst getting drunk and eating excessively.
And as for your comment about the traders not being here for the long haul, as far as I'm aware there's only one Muppet in the UK (yes I've met him, he's actually worse than a Muppet, but I can't use the words I'd prefer to), who celebrates Christmas every day of the year, and he lives in Melksham, Wilts., so it would be fairly pointless for them to be here all year.

There are plenty of places in and around Oxford that would be suitable for a Christmas Market.

Take Templars Square for example. The stalls could operate outdoors from just outside Wetherspoons right along to the Nelson - with premium stalls indoors.

Likewise, if work hasn't commenced on the Block & Quayle site, a massive *indoor* Christmas market could be held - with all the food stalls on the parking spaces between the old entrance and Halfords.

There are around 2000 parking spaces between Templars Square & Templars Retail Park.

Behind Tesco, at Ambassador Way, there is a disused 500 space car park - perfect for a Christmas Market, probably leaving 400 spaces free for customers.

Behind Tesco, on the Cowley Road, there is an abandoned builders yard - just off a major bus route, plenty of parking nearby too.

Then there are the "town greens" - what could better the festive spirit than a massive Christmas Market held on a Town Green? Warneford Meadow would be perfect!

The only thing that Broad Street truly offers is the prospect of a balance to offset the lack of business acumen.

This is the same council that wanted Christmas in Oxford to be known as a "Winter Light Festival" a few years ago. Sounds like they are making excuses to stop the market.

Why is it that other not so far away cities suc h as Worcester and Bath have their Christmas fairs every year that attract thousands of people to those cities and, apparantly, the local shops have no objections? I shall be going to either Bath or Worcester to do my Christmas shopping this year, not all of my cash will spent in the Christmas fair stalls but in local shops and also in eating and drinking places. All to the loss of Oxford traders.

Why is it that other not so far away cities suc h as Worcester and Bath have their Christmas fairs every year that attract thousands of people to those cities and, apparantly, the local shops have no objections? I shall be going to either Bath or Worcester to do my Christmas shopping this year, not all of my cash will spent in the Christmas fair stalls but in local shops and also in eating and drinking places. All to the loss of Oxford traders.

Dilligaf2010 wrote:

xjohnx wrote:
These traders aren't here for the long haul they just cherrypick the profitable trading.

Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.

Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.

The traders are invited to come from Europe, and other countries, because Christmas means more to them than sitting in front of the TV, whilst getting drunk and eating excessively.
And as for your comment about the traders not being here for the long haul, as far as I'm aware there's only one Muppet in the UK (yes I've met him, he's actually worse than a Muppet, but I can't use the words I'd prefer to), who celebrates Christmas every day of the year, and he lives in Melksham, Wilts., so it would be fairly pointless for them to be here all year.

What planet please!

Or is it yet more 'politically correct' garbage by a Labour-led City Council not wishing to be seen in support of what might be construed as being in any way pro-Christian? Perhaps the solution would be for City Council to hold yet another of its infamously expensive (and usually meaningless) 'public consultations' as to whether the people of Oxford should be allowed to 'openly enjoy and celebrate the Festive Season' as we know it? Perhaps it's about time that the council tax payers and voters of Oxford got off their collective rear-ends, and threw out those 'political philistines' who currently dominate and occupy the 'temple' - otherwise known as the Town Hall.

Bath & Birmingham have excellent Christmas markets held in the city centre which draw the crowds and benefit all businesses. I cant imagine the market would be competing by selling Oxford University tat or overpriced housewares, cant see what the problem is.

good, it was rubbish anyway.

This is so sad - and selfish. I - and many other people - loved the Christmas market.

The main problem with the original location in the castle was that the council didn't advertise the market and hence the "low footfall". Oxford council doesn't seem to like advertising...

We - the public - should have a say in whether we want a Christmas market in our town - not the greedy, profit-motivated shopkeepers.

The shops along Broad Street are mainly the University Souvenir shops and how many locals buy Christmas presents for their friends and family there anyway?

The other shops along the street - e.g. the art shop - are mainly quite specialised and unique in Oxford and so people generally know when they need to go to them and search them out specifically. I really don't think a Christmas market would make that much of a difference to them.

The Christmas market would only be there for 2 to 3 weeks anyway - it wouldn't be a permanent fixture.

Shame on the shops on Broad Street - due to this selfish and inconsiderate attitude, I will be boycotting them from now on - and not just for Christmas. 'll go to Boswells if for any reason I actually do find myself needing an Oxford souvenir for anyone!

violetta.b wrote:
This is so sad - and selfish. I - and many other people - loved the Christmas market.

The main problem with the original location in the castle was that the council didn't advertise the market and hence the "low footfall". Oxford council doesn't seem to like advertising...

We - the public - should have a say in whether we want a Christmas market in our town - not the greedy, profit-motivated shopkeepers.

The shops along Broad Street are mainly the University Souvenir shops and how many locals buy Christmas presents for their friends and family there anyway?

The other shops along the street - e.g. the art shop - are mainly quite specialised and unique in Oxford and so people generally know when they need to go to them and search them out specifically. I really don't think a Christmas market would make that much of a difference to them.

The Christmas market would only be there for 2 to 3 weeks anyway - it wouldn't be a permanent fixture.

Shame on the shops on Broad Street - due to this selfish and inconsiderate attitude, I will be boycotting them from now on - and not just for Christmas. 'll go to Boswells if for any reason I actually do find myself needing an Oxford souvenir for anyone!

It's not for any local authority to advertise a privately organised and operated market which is held within private grounds.

If advertising is to be done, then the organiser and the participants should be spending - it's they, after all, who'll be profiting.

When I went to the Christmas Market last year I was most disappointed. There were very few people there and after looking around I could see why. Little was appealing, not very festive and I left feeling it was a waste of time.

Market or no market, I'll be doing my Christmas shopping in Reading, as usual, where they seem to be a bit more appreciative of consumers.

xjohnx wrote:

Dilligaf2010 wrote:

xjohnx wrote:
These traders aren't here for the long haul they just cherrypick the profitable trading.

Christmas markets should be held out of town, rather like many car boot and flea markets.

Christmas markets used to be run for locals by locals. Now, by and large, the traders come from all over europe, sucking up and exporting local money.

The traders are invited to come from Europe, and other countries, because Christmas means more to them than sitting in front of the TV, whilst getting drunk and eating excessively.
And as for your comment about the traders not being here for the long haul, as far as I'm aware there's only one Muppet in the UK (yes I've met him, he's actually worse than a Muppet, but I can't use the words I'd prefer to), who celebrates Christmas every day of the year, and he lives in Melksham, Wilts., so it would be fairly pointless for them to be here all year.

What planet please!

Well the one I'm residing on is called Earth, what's yours called?

Such a big loss for Oxford, and a bizarre decision.

In previous years the Christmas Market has been about the only thing to give Oxford a real Christmas feel. It has brought into town people like me who would usually go elsewhere to shop, to find unusual and unique gifts at the market and then go around other shops.

I hope the decision is reversed, and the Market can move to this new location. If not, then I for one will be shopping elsewhere.

Truth is that the Old Jail/Castle site is located outside the main area for tourists, and has never really been popular with locals - though the Prison bit did at least have a captive audience! They have tried lots of different events at the site, and few have apparently been commercially successful - some say because the organisers don't know what they are doing, and others that they charge stall holders too much. So perhaps a better location would help - such as Broad Street, Cornmarket or even the marketplace at Gloucester Green? Failing that, maybe just relocate (like with the swimming pond) to Blackbeard Leys, where Chritsmas shoppers would at least be able to catch a bus every couple of minutes - though no room for all that shopping, until they introduce 'Baby Buggies Only' every second bus?

This is such a shame, Christmas markets are beautiful and a great experience. Everybody wrapped up warm, looking at / buying something a little different, lots of chatter and the odd glass of Gluhwein.

I've really fallen out with Oxford over the last few years. It's so sad because it could be and should be such a wonderful city to visit. True, there are some nice things to visit but it just doesn't really live up to itself.

Anyway, I do agree that there are plenty of alternate sights within the city (not everything needs to be held in the centre) that would benefit greatly from this.

For those of you that are able to spend a little on a weekend away, I would recommend going to Germany itself for the Christmas markets. They are spectacular

Ah well, I will visit the Winchester one then and do a bit of Christmas shopping while I am there. Well done (some) Oxford traders and OCC. Short sighted as ever.

Note to self. Boycott Flaggs.

im not sure but i didn't think the Oxford Castle market was funded (at least not in the majority) by the council. Last year i found it hard to find as everything pointed you to the switching on of the lights on St Giles and the councils rather poor attempt at their own market (some really awful stalls selling mulled wine at £6 a glass and a few knitted scarves!)

I thought the one at the castle was much better. More like a traditional Bavarian market with food and drink, gifts and crafts. It might not be for everyone but is everything always for everyone?!

Why can't this market join forces with the council and be located near to the light switch on? get an outdoor ice rink like they have in edinburgh too. tens of thousands flock to their market then shop at the brick and mortar stores on Princes st afterwards and the council grants late opening hours. I can't see how some europeans selling Bratwurst and cuckoo clocks can possibly affect trade at half the trashy 'gift' shops along Broad Street anyway?!!

If anything it would highlight to people what shops are down there if they hadn't shopped there before.

Really disappointed with this decision as there's a lack of public entertainment around that time of year as it is.

sparky123456 wrote:
im not sure but i didn't think the Oxford Castle market was funded (at least not in the majority) by the council. Last year i found it hard to find as everything pointed you to the switching on of the lights on St Giles and the councils rather poor attempt at their own market (some really awful stalls selling mulled wine at £6 a glass and a few knitted scarves!)

I thought the one at the castle was much better. More like a traditional Bavarian market with food and drink, gifts and crafts. It might not be for everyone but is everything always for everyone?!

Why can't this market join forces with the council and be located near to the light switch on? get an outdoor ice rink like they have in edinburgh too. tens of thousands flock to their market then shop at the brick and mortar stores on Princes st afterwards and the council grants late opening hours. I can't see how some europeans selling Bratwurst and cuckoo clocks can possibly affect trade at half the trashy 'gift' shops along Broad Street anyway?!!

If anything it would highlight to people what shops are down there if they hadn't shopped there before.

Really disappointed with this decision as there's a lack of public entertainment around that time of year as it is.

People haven't "flocked" to Princes Street in years! The tramworks put paid to that.

As to Princes Street opening hours. There is no legislation in Scotland for retail opening hours - large supermarkets open 24 hours on a Sunday, and high street shops tend to open 10-6 on a Sunday. The standard opening hours for large shops on Princes Street is 8-7 on a weekday

My family and I have always enjoyed the Christmas market - even if the Castle site is a bit out of the way and over-crowded. But if Oxford City Council doesn't want one, I'll go to WInchester - it's under an hour away, much nicer, easier to park etc etc.