CUTS: Protests pointless say council leader Mitchell

THE council leader behind library and youth centre cuts has warned petitions and protests are unlikely to have an impact.

Oxfordshire County Council leader Keith Mitchell said in a statement: “I fear petitions and protests will not be effective, because, as Liam Byrne – an ex-minister in the Labour government – said in his leaving note: ‘The money is all spent!’”

The Conservative-run authority announced plans on Friday to withdraw funding for 20 libraries and 20 youth centres to save £6.2m-a-year. It called for volunteers to run libraires instead.

Adderbury Library, in Mr Mitchell’s Bloxham division, is among those in jeopardy.

He said: “I am greatly saddened that Adderbury is in the list for cessation of funding. I know villagers who use the library will be saddened and angry at news of its loss of funding.

“What we need now is a Big Society to demonstrate their support for local village services by offering to support them.”

But Labour group leader Liz Brighouse said: “The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. We should not be making these cuts.

“The Government should be raising taxes, taxing the banks to make the money up.”

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Comments (34)

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9:21am Mon 29 Nov 10

cdb1917 says...

Well he would say that wouln't he?
The trade union and student protesters in Oxford last week showed us the way.
Let's make life very uncomfortable for Cllr Mitchell and his Tory [& Lib Dem} supporters.
Blame the bankers and the bosses. They can always find billions of pounds for themselves but ordinary people will be suffering cuts, unemployment and hardships. The wealthy say we are 'all in it together' and that unless we accept their demands then the economy will come crashing down.
What I say is that it's time to get rid of these parasites and build a society where human need comes first!
Well he would say that wouln't he? The trade union and student protesters in Oxford last week showed us the way. Let's make life very uncomfortable for Cllr Mitchell and his Tory [& Lib Dem} supporters. Blame the bankers and the bosses. They can always find billions of pounds for themselves but ordinary people will be suffering cuts, unemployment and hardships. The wealthy say we are 'all in it together' and that unless we accept their demands then the economy will come crashing down. What I say is that it's time to get rid of these parasites and build a society where human need comes first! cdb1917

9:32am Mon 29 Nov 10

Oxford resident says...

cdb1917 wrote:
Well he would say that wouln't he?
The trade union and student protesters in Oxford last week showed us the way.
Let's make life very uncomfortable for Cllr Mitchell and his Tory
I agree with cdb1917.

And what a hypocrite Keith Mitchell is! He hasn't said anything about reducing the £30,000-plus he takes every year from our council taxes for himself. He never had it so good, while most of us have to suffer insane cuts to vital public services.

if Mr Mitchell believes in the Big Society and us all pulling together, he should become an unpaid volunteer himself, but I don't hear him volunteering to run Adderbury Library.
[quote][p][bold]cdb1917[/bold] wrote: Well he would say that wouln't he? The trade union and student protesters in Oxford last week showed us the way. Let's make life very uncomfortable for Cllr Mitchell and his Tory [& Lib Dem} supporters. Blame the bankers and the bosses. They can always find billions of pounds for themselves but ordinary people will be suffering cuts, unemployment and hardships. The wealthy say we are 'all in it together' and that unless we accept their demands then the economy will come crashing down. What I say is that it's time to get rid of these parasites and build a society where human need comes first![/p][/quote]I agree with cdb1917. And what a hypocrite Keith Mitchell is! He hasn't said anything about reducing the £30,000-plus he takes every year from our council taxes for himself. He never had it so good, while most of us have to suffer insane cuts to vital public services. if Mr Mitchell believes in the Big Society and us all pulling together, he should become an unpaid volunteer himself, but I don't hear him volunteering to run Adderbury Library. Oxford resident

9:33am Mon 29 Nov 10

Oxford resident says...

I agree with cdb1917.

And what a hypocrite Keith Mitchell is! He hasn't said anything about reducing the £30,000-plus he takes every year from our council taxes for himself. He never had it so good, while most of us have to suffer insane cuts to vital public services.

if Mr Mitchell believes in the Big Society and us all pulling together, he should become an unpaid volunteer himself, but I don't hear him volunteering to run Adderbury Library.
I agree with cdb1917. And what a hypocrite Keith Mitchell is! He hasn't said anything about reducing the £30,000-plus he takes every year from our council taxes for himself. He never had it so good, while most of us have to suffer insane cuts to vital public services. if Mr Mitchell believes in the Big Society and us all pulling together, he should become an unpaid volunteer himself, but I don't hear him volunteering to run Adderbury Library. Oxford resident

9:38am Mon 29 Nov 10

Quentin Walker says...

'...But Labour group leader Liz Brighouse said: “The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. We should not be making these cuts.

“The Government should be raising taxes, taxing the banks to make the money up.”...'

Remind me, Mrs Brighouse, which party left this mess?
'...But Labour group leader Liz Brighouse said: “The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. We should not be making these cuts. “The Government should be raising taxes, taxing the banks to make the money up.”...' Remind me, Mrs Brighouse, which party left this mess? Quentin Walker

10:09am Mon 29 Nov 10

Berty says...

Quentin, it matters not who made the mess, but what the present incumbents are doing to sort it out. Looking back and playing the blame game will get us nowhere. I find Keith Mitchell to be a step away from a bully in his approach to the library closures. His posturing won't stop me campaigning. Talking of which, I'm shocked that there has been no comment from our shiney new MP.
Quentin, it matters not who made the mess, but what the present incumbents are doing to sort it out. Looking back and playing the blame game will get us nowhere. I find Keith Mitchell to be a step away from a bully in his approach to the library closures. His posturing won't stop me campaigning. Talking of which, I'm shocked that there has been no comment from our shiney new MP. Berty

10:10am Mon 29 Nov 10

Berty says...

Quentin, it matters not who made the mess, but what the present incumbents are doing to sort it out. Looking back and playing the blame game will get us nowhere. I find Keith Mitchell to be a step away from a bully in his approach to the library closures. His posturing won't stop me campaigning. Talking of which, I'm shocked that there has been no comment from our shiney new MP.
Quentin, it matters not who made the mess, but what the present incumbents are doing to sort it out. Looking back and playing the blame game will get us nowhere. I find Keith Mitchell to be a step away from a bully in his approach to the library closures. His posturing won't stop me campaigning. Talking of which, I'm shocked that there has been no comment from our shiney new MP. Berty

10:12am Mon 29 Nov 10

Major County says...

Like Mitchell you are clearly a Tory idiot Quentin. "Big Society" - more like "Big Con".
Like Mitchell you are clearly a Tory idiot Quentin. "Big Society" - more like "Big Con". Major County

10:50am Mon 29 Nov 10

Trevor Craig says...

OCC spend millions every year on consultants, IT, HR and various other things that could be cut and would have little or no impact on front line services. For example they spend £225,0000 a year on mobile phones, yet I don't see many mobile numbers on the OCC contacts page. Google "South East Business Portal", this shows spend on external suppliers by councils. The amount of money they spend is shocking. Also the salaries on their management team need to be looked at, I'm sure the chief exec's salary could keep at least 5 of the libraries open. With regards to the whole Tory-Lib Dem/Labour who is at fault argument I think they are all rubbish. Party ideology,dogma and spin is all you get from these idiots. Sadly to get elected you need to belong to one of these parties, independent candidates have no real chance in our warped system.
OCC spend millions every year on consultants, IT, HR and various other things that could be cut and would have little or no impact on front line services. For example they spend £225,0000 a year on mobile phones, yet I don't see many mobile numbers on the OCC contacts page. Google "South East Business Portal", this shows spend on external suppliers by councils. The amount of money they spend is shocking. Also the salaries on their management team need to be looked at, I'm sure the chief exec's salary could keep at least 5 of the libraries open. With regards to the whole Tory-Lib Dem/Labour who is at fault argument I think they are all rubbish. Party ideology,dogma and spin is all you get from these idiots. Sadly to get elected you need to belong to one of these parties, independent candidates have no real chance in our warped system. Trevor Craig

10:51am Mon 29 Nov 10

Sophia says...

I do not like Mitchell who is an arrogant bully of a man nor have ever I voted or will I ever vote Tory

But it is not credible to oppose each cut individually and say it shouldnt happen or that the defict can be covere dby taking banks - the numbers dont remotely work And if you think the deficit doesnt matter just look at Ireland and imagine how the market would deal with an economy which wont cut its deficit yet doesnt have the European Central Bank behind it

Remember too that Labour was going to make very big cuts also had it won the Election

Cuts are inevitable, whether w emake them ourselves or wait for the IMF to insist and of cousre if you wait, the cuts just get bigger

Of couse there is room to argue on the balance of the cuts but not about the need for them

Not if you are grown uupo, and want to live in the real world that is
I do not like Mitchell who is an arrogant bully of a man nor have ever I voted or will I ever vote Tory But it is not credible to oppose each cut individually and say it shouldnt happen or that the defict can be covere dby taking banks - the numbers dont remotely work And if you think the deficit doesnt matter just look at Ireland and imagine how the market would deal with an economy which wont cut its deficit yet doesnt have the European Central Bank behind it Remember too that Labour was going to make very big cuts also had it won the Election Cuts are inevitable, whether w emake them ourselves or wait for the IMF to insist and of cousre if you wait, the cuts just get bigger Of couse there is room to argue on the balance of the cuts but not about the need for them Not if you are grown uupo, and want to live in the real world that is Sophia

10:58am Mon 29 Nov 10

Same old Tories, same old politics says...

The cupboard is bare unless we need to find £8 billion to bail out the Irish and can afford to write off billions in tax from Osborne's friends at Vodaphone.

Mr Mitchell needs to make his mind up. He declares on his website that he's all for the Big Society, the markets and less government yet he cries crocodile tears over making these cuts and at no point has ever refused any money from central government to back up his claimed politics.

Mr Mitchell is a hypocrite and a blaggard. Come on Mr Mitchell, tell us where you stand exactly; for the cuts or against them?

As for Nicola Blackwood, any cursory glance at her website would lead you to believe that she's a fighter for local services. Her silence on this is deafening.

This is what she says on her site;

Protect Local Services


It is very disappointing that in our communities, the actions of both central and local government have put so many local services under threat.

Local post offices have closed and more are threatened with closure; countless local pubs have been shut; the Government want to close GP clinics and merge them into centralized impersonal polyclinics; even the probation office in Abingdon is due to close; and the planning system gives local communities inadequate powers when developers want to shut much-valued local shops.

Nicola has campaigned on many of these issues and has pledged to support communities in their fight to maintain a full range of local services and facilities.


Another charlatan and political chancer perchance?

Tory scum, the lot of them.
The cupboard is bare unless we need to find £8 billion to bail out the Irish and can afford to write off billions in tax from Osborne's friends at Vodaphone. Mr Mitchell needs to make his mind up. He declares on his website that he's all for the Big Society, the markets and less government yet he cries crocodile tears over making these cuts and at no point has ever refused any money from central government to back up his claimed politics. Mr Mitchell is a hypocrite and a blaggard. Come on Mr Mitchell, tell us where you stand exactly; for the cuts or against them? As for Nicola Blackwood, any cursory glance at her website would lead you to believe that she's a fighter for local services. Her silence on this is deafening. This is what she says on her site; Protect Local Services It is very disappointing that in our communities, the actions of both central and local government have put so many local services under threat. Local post offices have closed and more are threatened with closure; countless local pubs have been shut; the Government want to close GP clinics and merge them into centralized impersonal polyclinics; even the probation office in Abingdon is due to close; and the planning system gives local communities inadequate powers when developers want to shut much-valued local shops. Nicola has campaigned on many of these issues and has pledged to support communities in their fight to maintain a full range of local services and facilities. Another charlatan and political chancer perchance? Tory scum, the lot of them. Same old Tories, same old politics

11:12am Mon 29 Nov 10

EBTWO says...

Labour say they're not to blame that we're so short of money, though they were in Government.

The Tories say Labour are.

They cannot both be telling the truth - so let's get some honesty from our lying, cheating politicans, shall we?

Press them for the truth and eventually it'll come. Until then, stop arguing among yourselves.
Labour say they're not to blame that we're so short of money, though they were in Government. The Tories say Labour are. They cannot both be telling the truth - so let's get some honesty from our lying, cheating politicans, shall we? Press them for the truth and eventually it'll come. Until then, stop arguing among yourselves. EBTWO

11:12am Mon 29 Nov 10

Darkforbid says...

The problem is Government its self, is it really needed in the modern age?

Its just a parody of people playing "king"
The problem is Government its self, is it really needed in the modern age? Its just a parody of people playing "king" Darkforbid

11:13am Mon 29 Nov 10

Same old Tories, same old politics says...

Sophia wrote:
I do not like Mitchell who is an arrogant bully of a man nor have ever I voted or will I ever vote Tory But it is not credible to oppose each cut individually and say it shouldnt happen or that the defict can be covere dby taking banks - the numbers dont remotely work And if you think the deficit doesnt matter just look at Ireland and imagine how the market would deal with an economy which wont cut its deficit yet doesnt have the European Central Bank behind it Remember too that Labour was going to make very big cuts also had it won the Election Cuts are inevitable, whether w emake them ourselves or wait for the IMF to insist and of cousre if you wait, the cuts just get bigger Of couse there is room to argue on the balance of the cuts but not about the need for them Not if you are grown uupo, and want to live in the real world that is
It's also not credible to say the numbers don't work without providing any of your own to back it up.

Ireland was praised by Osborne in 2006 as the way we should be. It was also ironically championed by Osborne as the model for austerity.

If we take a look at Ireland, as you suggest, we can see that even after harsh austerity measures they still lost their triple A credit rating and then plunged in to crisis. Where you get the idea that their situation arose because of not cutting the deficit God only knows.

Let's get a few facts straight here.
We are not in an economic crisis.
We have the ability to devalue our currency.
Our debts are long term like a mortgage.
The budget deficit was less in 07 (just before the banking bailout) than when the Tories handed over in 97.
When the debt was 250% of GDP we built the NHS and millions of council houses.
There is another way starting with a Tobin tax which takes 0.005% from all international financial transactions in the city.

Please don't attempt to demean the value of the counter argument by describing those that don't agree with you as being childish and not living in the real world without actually hearing their points.

From reading your mish mash of fantasy I would suggest the real world is the last place you inhabit.

These Tory cuts are ideological. It is no coincidence that their medicine just happen to be what they have always believed in.
[quote][p][bold]Sophia[/bold] wrote: I do not like Mitchell who is an arrogant bully of a man nor have ever I voted or will I ever vote Tory But it is not credible to oppose each cut individually and say it shouldnt happen or that the defict can be covere dby taking banks - the numbers dont remotely work And if you think the deficit doesnt matter just look at Ireland and imagine how the market would deal with an economy which wont cut its deficit yet doesnt have the European Central Bank behind it Remember too that Labour was going to make very big cuts also had it won the Election Cuts are inevitable, whether w emake them ourselves or wait for the IMF to insist and of cousre if you wait, the cuts just get bigger Of couse there is room to argue on the balance of the cuts but not about the need for them Not if you are grown uupo, and want to live in the real world that is[/p][/quote]It's also not credible to say the numbers don't work without providing any of your own to back it up. Ireland was praised by Osborne in 2006 as the way we should be. It was also ironically championed by Osborne as the model for austerity. If we take a look at Ireland, as you suggest, we can see that even after harsh austerity measures they still lost their triple A credit rating and then plunged in to crisis. Where you get the idea that their situation arose because of not cutting the deficit God only knows. Let's get a few facts straight here. We are not in an economic crisis. We have the ability to devalue our currency. Our debts are long term like a mortgage. The budget deficit was less in 07 (just before the banking bailout) than when the Tories handed over in 97. When the debt was 250% of GDP we built the NHS and millions of council houses. There is another way starting with a Tobin tax which takes 0.005% from all international financial transactions in the city. Please don't attempt to demean the value of the counter argument by describing those that don't agree with you as being childish and not living in the real world without actually hearing their points. From reading your mish mash of fantasy I would suggest the real world is the last place you inhabit. These Tory cuts are ideological. It is no coincidence that their medicine just happen to be what they have always believed in. Same old Tories, same old politics

11:20am Mon 29 Nov 10

Same old Tories, same old politics says...

No front line cuts, remember that mantra from Cameron and Clegg?

Now we are starting to get a flavour of the real agenda and there is a lot more to come.

I feel sorry for those that thought these job losses would only affect people in what the Daily Mail calls 'non-jobs'.

At least the residents of Bloxham can take confort in the fact that Mr Mitchell and his family will be now running their library for them, won't they?

Fight for your local services because you may never see them again.
No front line cuts, remember that mantra from Cameron and Clegg? Now we are starting to get a flavour of the real agenda and there is a lot more to come. I feel sorry for those that thought these job losses would only affect people in what the Daily Mail calls 'non-jobs'. At least the residents of Bloxham can take confort in the fact that Mr Mitchell and his family will be now running their library for them, won't they? Fight for your local services because you may never see them again. Same old Tories, same old politics

11:20am Mon 29 Nov 10

Scaramuccia says...

Sophia, you make some fair points however the naked acceptance that whatever the current government (local OR national) is something we cannot question is rather worrying. This assumes that their priorities are correct and those of the protestors in society is not. We are not (or at least IMO should not be) a nation of weedy compliers with our political masters. If this were the case we would not have universal suffrage and we would still have the dreadfully unfair poll tax. When society deems the actions of a political leadership to be so unfair or unjust (as in the case of not allowing working class men or ANY women to vote in elections, or to charge everyone the same local government levy regardless of their means so Barons in their castles paid the same as pensioners in a town terrace) protest and legitimate but peaceful civil disobedience is sometimes needed. Often dogma of politicians gets in the way of sensible governance. We have CHOICES ! Not everything needs to be cut right now. You yourself have fallen for the propaganda that the media and Osborne have portrayed in their scare-mongering , when comparing the UK to Greece and Ireland. Not a single senior economist or political commentator buys into this comparison. It is like comparing a Reliant robin with a Bentley. So it is perfectly right that those who do not accept this propaganda and nonsense should rise up against it to wake up the sleeping fools who voted Lib Dem and Tory and are now seeing the results in policy that favours them and their banking and big business ex-school chums and fellow Bullingdon clubbers. Maybe those who are naive need to do some growing up here and smell some coffee - if you pardon my mixing of metaphors. It is true that whoever got into power would have had to cut – but Labour had a plan ( and remember they DID have all the figures) to do this much more slowly and you can bet your life more sympathetically, than this cruel and heartless bunch of blame-gamers.
Sophia, you make some fair points however the naked acceptance that whatever the current government (local OR national) is something we cannot question is rather worrying. This assumes that their priorities are correct and those of the protestors in society is not. We are not (or at least IMO should not be) a nation of weedy compliers with our political masters. If this were the case we would not have universal suffrage and we would still have the dreadfully unfair poll tax. When society deems the actions of a political leadership to be so unfair or unjust (as in the case of not allowing working class men or ANY women to vote in elections, or to charge everyone the same local government levy regardless of their means so Barons in their castles paid the same as pensioners in a town terrace) protest and legitimate but peaceful civil disobedience is sometimes needed. Often dogma of politicians gets in the way of sensible governance. We have CHOICES ! Not everything needs to be cut right now. You yourself have fallen for the propaganda that the media and Osborne have portrayed in their scare-mongering , when comparing the UK to Greece and Ireland. Not a single senior economist or political commentator buys into this comparison. It is like comparing a Reliant robin with a Bentley. So it is perfectly right that those who do not accept this propaganda and nonsense should rise up against it to wake up the sleeping fools who voted Lib Dem and Tory and are now seeing the results in policy that favours them and their banking and big business ex-school chums and fellow Bullingdon clubbers. Maybe those who are naive need to do some growing up here and smell some coffee - if you pardon my mixing of metaphors. It is true that whoever got into power would have had to cut – but Labour had a plan ( and remember they DID have all the figures) to do this much more slowly and you can bet your life more sympathetically, than this cruel and heartless bunch of blame-gamers. Scaramuccia

11:29am Mon 29 Nov 10

Scaramuccia says...

Just to add to my final sentence above Cameron said in the house at PMQs last week, he will still be blaming Labout in 5 years time - now how grown up and statesmanklike is that ?

I want my leader to be making his and his party's record in goverment the key message before th next election - or is this a tacit / subliminal admission that thngs will still be rubbish by then ? A very worrying thought ! Maybe he plans to blame Cleggs interference in Givernment for their sure-to-be poor record on growth, public servies and even his HAPPINESS index. Nil desperandum eh ?
Just to add to my final sentence above Cameron said in the house at PMQs last week, he will still be blaming Labout in 5 years time - now how grown up and statesmanklike is that ? I want my leader to be making his and his party's record in goverment the key message before th next election - or is this a tacit / subliminal admission that thngs will still be rubbish by then ? A very worrying thought ! Maybe he plans to blame Cleggs interference in Givernment for their sure-to-be poor record on growth, public servies and even his HAPPINESS index. Nil desperandum eh ? Scaramuccia

12:05pm Mon 29 Nov 10

Sophia says...

Scarramuccia

I agree there are choices. What I was arguing against was the gist of previous posts ie these cuts should not be made. If you argue that then if if you want to be credible you must suggest where you would cut. Otherwise you just go around opposing every single cut which to miy mind is not being adult about the mess we are in

I agree somewhat slower rate of cuts might be feaisble but bearing in mind that our deficit though not so bad as Greece or Eire is worse than Portugal and Spain and that we dont have the big battalions of European ie German reserves behind us, not much slower

Treu differeent economists have different views o how to proceed but its the markets that are decisive, if they wont lend or only at high rates then it wont matter what economists say

Personally I would like to see higher taxes on the richest and on banks but the numbers just dont work if you think that avoids the need for deep cuts in spending

In fact I think the council are right to target libraries, which we can live without much as we might regret it

If we carry on thinking the cuts are in soem magic way uneecssary and just a Toryplot we will just postpone the day of reckoning and itll just get much harder

Thats why I think some early comments cant be taken seriously
Scarramuccia I agree there are choices. What I was arguing against was the gist of previous posts ie these cuts should not be made. If you argue that then if if you want to be credible you must suggest where you would cut. Otherwise you just go around opposing every single cut which to miy mind is not being adult about the mess we are in I agree somewhat slower rate of cuts might be feaisble but bearing in mind that our deficit though not so bad as Greece or Eire is worse than Portugal and Spain and that we dont have the big battalions of European ie German reserves behind us, not much slower Treu differeent economists have different views o how to proceed but its the markets that are decisive, if they wont lend or only at high rates then it wont matter what economists say Personally I would like to see higher taxes on the richest and on banks but the numbers just dont work if you think that avoids the need for deep cuts in spending In fact I think the council are right to target libraries, which we can live without much as we might regret it If we carry on thinking the cuts are in soem magic way uneecssary and just a Toryplot we will just postpone the day of reckoning and itll just get much harder Thats why I think some early comments cant be taken seriously Sophia

1:39pm Mon 29 Nov 10

Berty says...

Sophia said; "Of couse there is room to argue on the balance of the cuts but not about the need for them.Not if you are grown up, and want to live in the real world that is."

You make an excellent point, so it's a shame you spoiled it with an insult in your final sentence. The point you are missing is that while cuts are, of course, essential we still have the right to object about cuts made to services which we feel particularly strongly about. To criticise people on this site for expressing their opinion is a bit of an own-goal, as this section is called "comoments", not "State the obvious".
Sophia said; "Of couse there is room to argue on the balance of the cuts but not about the need for them.Not if you are grown up, and want to live in the real world that is." You make an excellent point, so it's a shame you spoiled it with an insult in your final sentence. The point you are missing is that while cuts are, of course, essential we still have the right to object about cuts made to services which we feel particularly strongly about. To criticise people on this site for expressing their opinion is a bit of an own-goal, as this section is called "comoments", not "State the obvious". Berty

4:37pm Mon 29 Nov 10

Peterr Mcvey says...

As we are all in agreement about Mr Mitchell, why don't we all just register ourselves at an adress in his constituancy, and at the next election vote the, pompous, self important, uncaring, pocket lining, Tory twit, out of office.
As we are all in agreement about Mr Mitchell, why don't we all just register ourselves at an adress in his constituancy, and at the next election vote the, pompous, self important, uncaring, pocket lining, Tory twit, out of office. Peterr Mcvey

4:49pm Mon 29 Nov 10

Scaramuccia says...

If you have ever run youir own, or anyone else's business, you know there are two major elements Revenue and Costs.

If my business is struggling and I am not making enough profit or too big a loss (like a country running a deficit) I have three choices 1. cut costs according to revenue alone (a defeatist approach) 2. keep costs the same and concentrate on growing revenue ( not always possible in tight markets / recession) or the THIRD way - do a bit of both. The difference between Labour and the ConDems is that they disagree on the porportion. Labour wants to incerease tax revenues and make thisd a higher proportion fo the solution by making the more well off pay a bit more - they would also not have used a regressive tax like VAT to hit the poorest proportionately more than the wealthier in society. Nor would they have made so many cuts to the poorest in terms of welfare cuts.

There was no immediatete threat to our borrowing status (this was a scare tactic to get people thinking just like you and so many others are now) and although we are not in the Euro, the size of our economy, much bigger than most EU countries, and their dependence on our trade, means that Eurozone countries would also have had to bale us out of any problem as they are with Greece Irealnd and will have to with Spain and Portugal. This run on the Euro and countries being targeted is because of the bloodlust and greed of market speculators who are really the cause of this current crisis and mass hysteria.

The over-reporting of the strories without any measure of balance makes the hysteria greater. This suits Osborne et al very well indeed. When you say the markets control lending this is true but the institutions have to lend to someone - it is their business - If they donlt lend to us and others countries with deficitis who will they ledn to ? The coutries such as Chna running big surpolueses don't need to borrow ? QED ! Itt worrioes me when people like Sofia who are cleraly eduicated and articulate cannot see they are being doped and brainwashed by politicians dressing their dogma up as necessity.
If you have ever run youir own, or anyone else's business, you know there are two major elements Revenue and Costs. If my business is struggling and I am not making enough profit or too big a loss (like a country running a deficit) I have three choices 1. cut costs according to revenue alone (a defeatist approach) 2. keep costs the same and concentrate on growing revenue ( not always possible in tight markets / recession) or the THIRD way - do a bit of both. The difference between Labour and the ConDems is that they disagree on the porportion. Labour wants to incerease tax revenues and make thisd a higher proportion fo the solution by making the more well off pay a bit more - they would also not have used a regressive tax like VAT to hit the poorest proportionately more than the wealthier in society. Nor would they have made so many cuts to the poorest in terms of welfare cuts. There was no immediatete threat to our borrowing status (this was a scare tactic to get people thinking just like you and so many others are now) and although we are not in the Euro, the size of our economy, much bigger than most EU countries, and their dependence on our trade, means that Eurozone countries would also have had to bale us out of any problem as they are with Greece Irealnd and will have to with Spain and Portugal. This run on the Euro and countries being targeted is because of the bloodlust and greed of market speculators who are really the cause of this current crisis and mass hysteria. The over-reporting of the strories without any measure of balance makes the hysteria greater. This suits Osborne et al very well indeed. When you say the markets control lending this is true but the institutions have to lend to someone - it is their business - If they donlt lend to us and others countries with deficitis who will they ledn to ? The coutries such as Chna running big surpolueses don't need to borrow ? QED ! Itt worrioes me when people like Sofia who are cleraly eduicated and articulate cannot see they are being doped and brainwashed by politicians dressing their dogma up as necessity. Scaramuccia

9:21pm Mon 29 Nov 10

Berty says...

Peterr, I fear that there are too many slef-interested Tory Twits in our area to get this particular one out of office. If I wasn't such an emotionally reactive big mouth I'd get involved in local politics, but I fear the pettiness would be more than I could cope with. There's nothign worse than someone sobbing uncontrollably in a council meeting.........
Peterr, I fear that there are too many slef-interested Tory Twits in our area to get this particular one out of office. If I wasn't such an emotionally reactive big mouth I'd get involved in local politics, but I fear the pettiness would be more than I could cope with. There's nothign worse than someone sobbing uncontrollably in a council meeting......... Berty

10:19pm Mon 29 Nov 10

Kropotkin says...

Cut the incompetence and the cover-ups!
Cut the incompetence and the cover-ups! Kropotkin

6:57am Tue 30 Nov 10

Shirley Burnham says...

Please excuse me for entering what is a very local debate, as someone who is not local. I was shocked to see that your council leader is dismissing protest as "pointless", thus nullifying any formal consultation process to be undertaken. Your council is enjoying the assistance of the government's (MLA) Future Libraries Programme - are those experts offering the assistance happy that consultation will not be undertaken with serious intent ? It might perhaps be worthwhile pointing this out ?
Please excuse me for entering what is a very local debate, as someone who is not local. I was shocked to see that your council leader is dismissing protest as "pointless", thus nullifying any formal consultation process to be undertaken. Your council is enjoying the assistance of the government's (MLA) Future Libraries Programme - are those experts offering the assistance happy that consultation will not be undertaken with serious intent ? It might perhaps be worthwhile pointing this out ? Shirley Burnham

7:17am Tue 30 Nov 10

Shirley Burnham says...

Another point one could make is that David Cameron was one of the largest supporters of the Sustainable Communities Bill back in 2004-2006, which is now an Act of Parliament. Law is law and if local community services continue to be in decline because of government spending cut-backs, then people might be inclined to question whether the Government has broken the law. It may also be reasonable to suggest that the cuts in libraries in Oxfordshire could be in conflict with the Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964, a piece of legislation that also appears to have been kicked into the long grass by the Coalition government.
Another point one could make is that David Cameron was one of the largest supporters of the Sustainable Communities Bill back in 2004-2006, which is now an Act of Parliament. Law is law and if local community services continue to be in decline because of government spending cut-backs, then people might be inclined to question whether the Government has broken the law. It may also be reasonable to suggest that the cuts in libraries in Oxfordshire could be in conflict with the Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964, a piece of legislation that also appears to have been kicked into the long grass by the Coalition government. Shirley Burnham

7:51am Tue 30 Nov 10

Berty says...

Thank you Shirley. That's going into my letter to Mitchell. I'm glad you are also niggled by Mitchell's dismissive attitude towards our right to protest.
Thank you Shirley. That's going into my letter to Mitchell. I'm glad you are also niggled by Mitchell's dismissive attitude towards our right to protest. Berty

8:09am Tue 30 Nov 10

Sophia says...

Scaramuccia Well we are not so very far apart you and I since we bothagree that major cuts are necessary but they could have been better planned.

On the market point though, which is I know a bit about, I dont think its speculators driving up borroing costs for Eire etc, its lenders not liking the look of the risk they are runnin,g and no wonder now that Merkel says bond holders should have some of their money confiscated, a huge own goal (do it if you have to but rightaway, dont stand around saying you are going to do it!)

You say if they dont lend to Eire etc who will they lend to - almost any major economy that looks safe, Germany France Italy Japan USA S America.

We'll never know what would have happened had Labour got in and made on slight cuts but I suggest in the current climate its unrealistic to suppose the market would not have reacted sharply and once that happens you are in a downward spiral thats hard to pull out of as the Irish have found (borrowing costs more = deficit increases = borrowing costs even more etc)

Yet we still have people on this page thinking its unlawful to reduce spending at all on libraries which God knows are not an essential service
Scaramuccia Well we are not so very far apart you and I since we bothagree that major cuts are necessary but they could have been better planned. On the market point though, which is I know a bit about, I dont think its speculators driving up borroing costs for Eire etc, its lenders not liking the look of the risk they are runnin,g and no wonder now that Merkel says bond holders should have some of their money confiscated, a huge own goal (do it if you have to but rightaway, dont stand around saying you are going to do it!) You say if they dont lend to Eire etc who will they lend to - almost any major economy that looks safe, Germany France Italy Japan USA S America. We'll never know what would have happened had Labour got in and made on slight cuts but I suggest in the current climate its unrealistic to suppose the market would not have reacted sharply and once that happens you are in a downward spiral thats hard to pull out of as the Irish have found (borrowing costs more = deficit increases = borrowing costs even more etc) Yet we still have people on this page thinking its unlawful to reduce spending at all on libraries which God knows are not an essential service Sophia

9:19am Tue 30 Nov 10

the wizard says...

Quentin Walker, Oxford says...
9:38am Mon 29 Nov 10
'...But Labour group leader Liz Brighouse said: “The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. We should not be making these cuts.

“The Government should be raising taxes, taxing the banks to make the money up.”...'

Remind me, Mrs Brighouse, which party left this mess?

Now Sir, remind me, which party do the irresponsible Banking Community vote for, you know, the guys that run the banks, stock exchange, and the self same guys that once de regulated by Thatcher plundered all they could from society to fulfill there own self gratification and greed, its definaely note Labour, i'll give you a clue, the fly-away MP for Witney.
Quentin Walker, Oxford says... 9:38am Mon 29 Nov 10 '...But Labour group leader Liz Brighouse said: “The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. We should not be making these cuts. “The Government should be raising taxes, taxing the banks to make the money up.”...' Remind me, Mrs Brighouse, which party left this mess? Now Sir, remind me, which party do the irresponsible Banking Community vote for, you know, the guys that run the banks, stock exchange, and the self same guys that once de regulated by Thatcher plundered all they could from society to fulfill there own self gratification and greed, its definaely note Labour, i'll give you a clue, the fly-away MP for Witney. the wizard

1:46pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Shirley Burnham says...

to - Berty, Abingdon :
Roy Clare, the CEO of MLA, has given his permission for me to circulate his reply to a query I put to him. I hope it helps.

Sustainable Communities Legislation

Subject: RE: Oxford Mail : 29th November
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:22:05 +0000

"Shirley, quite so, but any challenge to Oxford under the Sustainable Communities legislation would have to come from people living locally; do they feel that consultation is inadequate? Not sure they can know yet, as the Leader has said they are now consulting about ways to deliver services that can replace the 20 or so unproductive service points (aka libraries). Too soon to tell is my guess. Roy"

Roy Clare CBE
Chief Executive Officer
Museums Libraries & Archives Council
T: +44 (0) 207 273 1476/9
F: +44 (0) 121 345 7303
roy.clare@mla.gov.uk
to - Berty, Abingdon : Roy Clare, the CEO of MLA, has given his permission for me to circulate his reply to a query I put to him. I hope it helps. Sustainable Communities Legislation Subject: RE: Oxford Mail : 29th November Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:22:05 +0000 "Shirley, quite so, but any challenge to Oxford under the Sustainable Communities legislation would have to come from people living locally; do they feel that consultation is inadequate? Not sure they can know yet, as the Leader has said they are now consulting about ways to deliver services that can replace the 20 or so unproductive service points (aka libraries). Too soon to tell is my guess. Roy" Roy Clare CBE Chief Executive Officer Museums Libraries & Archives Council T: +44 (0) 207 273 1476/9 F: +44 (0) 121 345 7303 roy.clare@mla.gov.uk Shirley Burnham

4:41pm Tue 30 Nov 10

riman09 says...

Mr Mitchell, you might as well live in some dark, undemocratic country somewhere by the way you dismiss legitimate means of voicing concern. Would you rather dictate what happens?
Mr Mitchell, you might as well live in some dark, undemocratic country somewhere by the way you dismiss legitimate means of voicing concern. Would you rather dictate what happens? riman09

4:48pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Scaramuccia says...

Sophia – I don’t doubt your market knowledge but beg to differ on the main causes of the Greece / Irish / Eurozone crisis.
I heard a radio news report of an EU official yesterday saying that the bale out was sufficient but that speculators were causing instability in the markets.
I also found this :
http://www.marketora
cle.co.uk/Article177
49.htm
http://ezinearticles
.com/?Anatomy-of-the
-EU-Economic-Crisis-
--Currency-Speculato
rs,-In-Crisis-Overva
lued-Selling-and-the
-Euro&id=4843063
Markets, especially financial ones, do not always behave rationally and any panic can spread easily with disastrous consequences. It is these speculators that cause runs on currency and cause lack of investor confidence because they are betting a country will default on its debts. They are little more than common gamblers but are speculating not on the results of some benign sporting event but much more important things that can have cataclysmic effects and this is what many like me, who are against free markets with poor regulation, abhor.
Then we have governments brainwashing the masses to accept the medicine for a disease that they played little / no part in creating whilst the culprits move onto their next victim and the bankers continue to earn bonuses and get richer.

Watch the next few days as the speculators go after Portugal then Spain. If they decide to come after you no one is completely safe and nothing Osborne or the ConDems have done can stop that.
On the point of what we can and cannot afford and libraries- it is a measure of civilisation to consider more than just the laws of economics and we also need to consider the opportunity costs of making cuts to things that can damage society in the long run. We must also retain a sense of proportion here and realise that this country has come through tougher economic times (depression, second world war etc) This deficit is bad, but we are a wealthy country - we do not have to accept that all cuts are about the deficit - some are part of a dogmatic and ideological change to the role of government in society dressed up as necessity. Some of us are not and WILL not be fooled and we will not sit back and take it because our 'elders and betters' say so - that attitude went out in the post war electoral landslide against the Tories and Churchill - this is no time to bring it back.
Sophia – I don’t doubt your market knowledge but beg to differ on the main causes of the Greece / Irish / Eurozone crisis. I heard a radio news report of an EU official yesterday saying that the bale out was sufficient but that speculators were causing instability in the markets. I also found this : http://www.marketora cle.co.uk/Article177 49.htm http://ezinearticles .com/?Anatomy-of-the -EU-Economic-Crisis- --Currency-Speculato rs,-In-Crisis-Overva lued-Selling-and-the -Euro&id=4843063 Markets, especially financial ones, do not always behave rationally and any panic can spread easily with disastrous consequences. It is these speculators that cause runs on currency and cause lack of investor confidence because they are betting a country will default on its debts. They are little more than common gamblers but are speculating not on the results of some benign sporting event but much more important things that can have cataclysmic effects and this is what many like me, who are against free markets with poor regulation, abhor. Then we have governments brainwashing the masses to accept the medicine for a disease that they played little / no part in creating whilst the culprits move onto their next victim and the bankers continue to earn bonuses and get richer. Watch the next few days as the speculators go after Portugal then Spain. If they decide to come after you no one is completely safe and nothing Osborne or the ConDems have done can stop that. On the point of what we can and cannot afford and libraries- it is a measure of civilisation to consider more than just the laws of economics and we also need to consider the opportunity costs of making cuts to things that can damage society in the long run. We must also retain a sense of proportion here and realise that this country has come through tougher economic times (depression, second world war etc) This deficit is bad, but we are a wealthy country - we do not have to accept that all cuts are about the deficit - some are part of a dogmatic and ideological change to the role of government in society dressed up as necessity. Some of us are not and WILL not be fooled and we will not sit back and take it because our 'elders and betters' say so - that attitude went out in the post war electoral landslide against the Tories and Churchill - this is no time to bring it back. Scaramuccia

5:29pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Berty says...

Thank you Shirley! :)
Thank you Shirley! :) Berty

7:44pm Tue 30 Nov 10

Sophia says...

Scaramuccia Thanks for the links but I cant make the first work The second links to an article which says that speculators make money by holding euros then selling them for dollars as the euro falls then buying more euros when it has fallen. If that were true then they could ONLY make money if the Euro then bounces back to the original level!

I agree, markets ie people can panic and behave irrationally. It does not follow that every sell off is an irrational panic. It may be a quite rational panic! - that what you are holding is losing value fast and you'd better get shot of it

I was just saying if there are to be cuts and you dont seem to deny some are needed,I'd much rather libraries were cut than home support for the elderly or disabled say or schools or flood prevention...My point is that if hard chocies are necssray it is not mature to say (and you to be fair do not) that we can simply refuse to make any choices and keep everything exactly as it is.

Enjoyed our discussion!
Scaramuccia Thanks for the links but I cant make the first work The second links to an article which says that speculators make money by holding euros then selling them for dollars as the euro falls then buying more euros when it has fallen. If that were true then they could ONLY make money if the Euro then bounces back to the original level! I agree, markets ie people can panic and behave irrationally. It does not follow that every sell off is an irrational panic. It may be a quite rational panic! - that what you are holding is losing value fast and you'd better get shot of it I was just saying if there are to be cuts and you dont seem to deny some are needed,I'd much rather libraries were cut than home support for the elderly or disabled say or schools or flood prevention...My point is that if hard chocies are necssray it is not mature to say (and you to be fair do not) that we can simply refuse to make any choices and keep everything exactly as it is. Enjoyed our discussion! Sophia

10:20am Wed 1 Dec 10

Shirley Burnham says...

Please may I draw to the Oxford Mail's attention and that of its readers that the leader of the MLA, which collaborating with your Council, has made an extraordinary statement - praising the council for its "political courage". It is important that you are aware of this !
http://www.thebookse
ller.com/news/136745
-mla-praises-politic
al-courage-of-oxford
shire-council.html
Please may I draw to the Oxford Mail's attention and that of its readers that the leader of the MLA, which collaborating with your Council, has made an extraordinary statement - praising the council for its "political courage". It is important that you are aware of this ! http://www.thebookse ller.com/news/136745 -mla-praises-politic al-courage-of-oxford shire-council.html Shirley Burnham

3:02pm Fri 3 Dec 10

normans says...

Darkforbid wrote:
The problem is Government its self, is it really needed in the modern age? Its just a parody of people playing "king"
Gosh, Darkforbid has learnt how to spell.Still only very basic and nonsense though.
[quote][p][bold]Darkforbid[/bold] wrote: The problem is Government its self, is it really needed in the modern age? Its just a parody of people playing "king"[/p][/quote]Gosh, Darkforbid has learnt how to spell.Still only very basic and nonsense though. normans

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