Cars seized in safety crackdown (From Oxford Mail)

"Of the two motorists whose vehicles were seized, one was driving without a licence and the other without insurance"
I don't think anyone can have a car taken away for driving without a licence. If it's insured then they would have to call a competent driver to take it away for them . In any event who's to say whether all the foreign drivers are licensed or not? Our native licence-less drivers usually have the wit to ask for a producer so that they can drive away.

forgive me if im wrong but i thought no licence equals no insurance?

Exactly. tow those cars away and slap a nice big fine on them for being so stupid.

christeenyweeny wrote:
forgive me if im wrong but i thought no licence equals no insurance?

Forgiven. Look at the wording on your certificate. It will say something to the effect of "holds or has held a licence and is not disqualified from driving". Holding a licence includes having a provisional , or having had a provisional, even if you're not driving in acordance with it. I hope this helps your understanding of the subject.

Lord Palmerstone wrote:

christeenyweeny wrote: forgive me if im wrong but i thought no licence equals no insurance?

Forgiven. Look at the wording on your certificate. It will say something to the effect of "holds or has held a licence and is not disqualified from driving". Holding a licence includes having a provisional , or having had a provisional, even if you're not driving in acordance with it. I hope this helps your understanding of the subject.

Forgive me if I am wrong , But No Insurance means No Road Tax I think ?

Lord Palmerstone wrote:
"Of the two motorists whose vehicles were seized, one was driving without a licence and the other without insurance"
I don't think anyone can have a car taken away for driving without a licence. If it's insured then they would have to call a competent driver to take it away for them . In any event who's to say whether all the foreign drivers are licensed or not? Our native licence-less drivers usually have the wit to ask for a producer so that they can drive away.

I believe foreign drivers have 12 months on their native country licence before they have to get a UK licence.
Police rarely give producers these days. They can check with the DVLA whether the driver has a licence and whether the car is taxed and MOT'd, they can also check a database to see whether the car shows as having insurance. If not they usually get the driver to name their insurance company and check on the spot whether the car is insured.

I have been advised by a friend in the Insurance business that there are many cars on the road without insurance ( i.e. also not taxed )
He has seen many cases where 'a young driver pays a large insurance premium to tax a powerful car, uses the insurance to tax it and then cancels the insurance and repeats this when it needs taxing again'. There should be a bit more collboration between those responsible for the Insurance and Road Tax databases.

Lord Palmerstone wrote:

christeenyweeny wrote:
forgive me if im wrong but i thought no licence equals no insurance?

Forgiven. Look at the wording on your certificate. It will say something to the effect of "holds or has held a licence and is not disqualified from driving". Holding a licence includes having a provisional , or having had a provisional, even if you're not driving in acordance with it. I hope this helps your understanding of the subject.

Lordy Lordy...Clearly you have the secret to UK case law which should see you make millions from challenging these convictions...

some insurance policies do indeed include small print stating 'holds or has held' - this is purely to cover genuine lapses with renewing a licence (photocard licences renewed every ten years).

Further, you have to have an entitlement to drive the 'class' of vehicle also. For example, if you only have a licence to drive an automatic car, and drive a manual, you do not have a valid licence for the 'class'.

If you fail to hold a valid driving licence, you're insurance policy is almost certainly void. It will be down to the prosecution to prove, in cases of lapsed licences, that the insurance company would not honour the insurance. I have yet to hear of an insurance company that will hounour your policy, when driving otherwise than in accordance.

If you fail to have valid insurance, your vehicle can be seized. It is up to the driver to prove they have valid insurance and a valid licence. Should this be proved, then vehicle can be released without penalty.

It is not down to the driver to dictate a producer be given, this is a decision for the officer requesting the documents. Producers are given less frequently as most checks can usually be conducted at the roadside.

This just shows the injustice in the justice system - the two car drivers without the relevent documents will have their cars impounded, sent to court, fined and banned (quite rightly).
The illegal immigrant is now on one long one million pound plus gravy train, appeals, human rights, more appeals food and lodgings for 2 years an array of bleeding heart liberals - oh yes he must stay as his life is at risk oh and so is his family - just wait for some pensioners to die from lack of support so he can have their home, oh he's stayed now thats great another victory for the moralists - traffic offence - what traffic offence? let him off that as he's had a hard time and he's only broken 26 laws. Great result all round. Bargain price £5 million and rising.

Victor Meldrew2 wrote:
This just shows the injustice in the justice system - the two car drivers without the relevent documents will have their cars impounded, sent to court, fined and banned (quite rightly). The illegal immigrant is now on one long one million pound plus gravy train, appeals, human rights, more appeals food and lodgings for 2 years an array of bleeding heart liberals - oh yes he must stay as his life is at risk oh and so is his family - just wait for some pensioners to die from lack of support so he can have their home, oh he's stayed now thats great another victory for the moralists - traffic offence - what traffic offence? let him off that as he's had a hard time and he's only broken 26 laws. Great result all round. Bargain price £5 million and rising.

Unfortunately, you are very, very correct.

It's against public policy for insurance companies to avoid policies for things like having the wrong, or no, licence and with full disclosure it is actually possible for a disqualified driver to have full insurance, e.g. if he has to leave his car outside his house because he hasn't off street parking. I don't think many companies would give a deal on that one though. For the rest, all you chaps and chapesses are advised to read the latest edition of Wilkinson and not rely exclusively on me.

OK your Lordship, who or what is this 'Wilkinson' you speak of ?
This 'chap' would like to know please.

Wilkinson's "Road Traffic Offences", the motoring lawyer's bible.

Some OM readers clearly haven't learned to Googlesearch that well, or are just lazy.

simplicissimus wrote:
Wilkinson's "Road Traffic Offences", the motoring lawyer's bible. Some OM readers clearly haven't learned to Googlesearch that well, or are just lazy.

I am not going to sink to your level of being downright rude.
I will just say that I am very able to use Google and resent being referred to as lazy.
I am not a lawyer and have never heard of the publication, and nor has Google until you enter the full title, but seeing as Mr Lordy was too lazy to type the complete title I was unable to find it.

Lord Palmerstone wrote:
"Of the two motorists whose vehicles were seized, one was driving without a licence and the other without insurance" I don't think anyone can have a car taken away for driving without a licence. If it's insured then they would have to call a competent driver to take it away for them . In any event who's to say whether all the foreign drivers are licensed or not? Our native licence-less drivers usually have the wit to ask for a producer so that they can drive away.

Completely wrong! A car can be seized if the driver is driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence eg if they have no licence or are, say, a provisional licence holder who is not supervised or is not displaying L plates, or has a licence for a difference class of vehicle eg has a motorcycle licence but is driving a car. Although they might allow it the police are under no obligation to wait for the driver to get a properly licenced and insured driver to come and remove the car from the scene. The driver can get his vehicle back if a properly licenced/insured driver takes their documents to a police station, gets a form endorsed and then goes to the recovery garage and pays £150 + £20 a day storage up to 15 days, after which it is scrapped. The driver also gets fined and points on top of the recovery costs. Cars are also seized now if the tax disc is more than 28 days out of date. Good!

Marina Morris wrote:

Lord Palmerstone wrote: "Of the two motorists whose vehicles were seized, one was driving without a licence and the other without insurance" I don't think anyone can have a car taken away for driving without a licence. If it's insured then they would have to call a competent driver to take it away for them . In any event who's to say whether all the foreign drivers are licensed or not? Our native licence-less drivers usually have the wit to ask for a producer so that they can drive away.

Completely wrong! A car can be seized if the driver is driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence eg if they have no licence or are, say, a provisional licence holder who is not supervised or is not displaying L plates, or has a licence for a difference class of vehicle eg has a motorcycle licence but is driving a car. Although they might allow it the police are under no obligation to wait for the driver to get a properly licenced and insured driver to come and remove the car from the scene. The driver can get his vehicle back if a properly licenced/insured driver takes their documents to a police station, gets a form endorsed and then goes to the recovery garage and pays £150 + £20 a day storage up to 15 days, after which it is scrapped. The driver also gets fined and points on top of the recovery costs. Cars are also seized now if the tax disc is more than 28 days out of date. Good!

What a strange person you are, advocating legalised robbery, this is just another way to extort money out of the motorist. Would you be in favour of having your house taken away because you were 1 month behind with your council tax?

Apu I dont know whats up with you ?
I agree with Marina.
When someone decides to drive a car in this country, they are usually aware of the need for a driving licence, road tax and insurance.
You say 'legalised robbery' and 'extortion'. NO it is the law!
If you dont like it, WALK.
It is normal to be pre-warned of impending renewal dates and in the case of a mortgage, non-payment.
Ignorance of these laws, should and will result in these publicised penalties.

If people are nuts enough to spend money on petrol vehicles and make themselves subject to even more insane feudal laws than before, they don't get any sympathy from me.

Of course there is a simple way around all of this. You take lessons and pass your test. You buy a safe car that is either new or comes with an MOT from a garage, so there is comeback if something is wrong. You then take out insurance and get it taxed. The DVLA allows you now to tax a car "on line", as all big insurers are on the DVLA data base. Add to that the MOT, as it is refered to, is now on data base, so all the documents tally. You drive in a safe manner so you don't get points on your licence, and you maintain your vehicle. Its not so difficult. Most of us do it and remain within the law. Step over the well defined common sense laws and you get done, simple. If you are silly and drive without a licence or insurance you reap what you sow and you get whats coming to you, and if you land up off the road, then good ridance.
The soundest piece of advice if you have any quieries regarding the law is to go either to DVLA or your Police Station and get an answer in writing.