Soldier refused service in Witney pub . . . because he was in uniform (From Oxford Mail)

Cross Keys pub, in Market Street, Witney.


Disgusting behaviour, wont be going there again or any other pub in the chain.

Billy did you actualy read the story? The Cross Keys and 5 other Pubs in the area said they recieved letters from the base asking them not to serve personel in uniform. They were doing w3hat was asked of them. Anyway I've been refused service for wearing my work clothes, whats the difference?

I hope people remember this disgraceful behaviour when it comes to New Years Eve and the pub charges huge entrance fees to those wanting to celebrate the evening.

These guys were part of their regimental recruiting team looking for lunch, they should have been welcomed not turned away and the firm says it staff would do it again !!!

Billy Windsor II wrote:
Cross Keys pub, in Market Street, Witney.


Disgusting behaviour, wont be going there again or any other pub in the chain.

As it clearly says at the bottom of the report:
"RAF Brize Norton spokes- man Katie Zasada said: “Any personnel in the Navy, Army or RAF are not allowed to enter any pub in uniform, unless it is for a wedding or funeral."

So, the guy was breaking service regulations by doing going into a pub in uniform. The pub just messed up their reasoning, but he should have been aware he was in the wrong anyway.
Story over nothing.

Punch Taverns are simply a money making machine and the standard of their tenant's staff in this case reflects that. Don't take a lease from them unless you want to lose your life savings.

"Yesterday, pub chain Punch Taverns claimed RAF Brize Norton had written to local pubs telling them not to serve uniformed soldiers. The base denied this......." How about the OM do some real investigative journalism and get a copy of the letter?

phantom flan flinger wrote:
Billy did you actualy read the story? The Cross Keys and 5 other Pubs in the area said they recieved letters from the base asking them not to serve personel in uniform. They were doing w3hat was asked of them. Anyway I've been refused service for wearing my work clothes, whats the difference?

phantomflan flinge-did you actually read the story? where does it say 5 other pubs received the same letters?

Quote- ten other Witney pubs told the Gazette they had never received any such request from the airbase.

Could you explain please?

Work clothes I can understand.Especiall
y if Builders clothes or such like.These men in uniform are totally different!
They have been fighting a war risking their lives for goodness sake!

How you can compare your work clothes on the same level -beggers belief!

Absolutely disgusting, these soldiers must wonder what they are fighting for sometimes.

I will certainly avoid the Cross Keys from now on.

If this had been a non British person all hell would have broke loose over discrimination. Its time we fully supported our Armed Forces in every way possible.

Read the article you muppets, it states at the end that members of the armed forces aren't permitted to enter pubs in uniform. The fact that these two fella's were refused service was down to an element of mis-understanding, and the situation was clearly handled badly. It doesnt mean that the pub in questions a "disgrace" and that the staff are in someway disrespecting what the troops are doing in Afghanistan. Crap bit of journalism designed to whip up the usual ignorant jingoistic responce from jo public, any minor afront to a member of the forces gets the same response in the press, whats this doing in the Ox Mail anyway!

As much as I support our troops, I would have done the same. As a licensee since the mid 90's. and a current personal licence holder, I have been repeatedly told that it is an offence to serve military personnel, policeman and firemen in uniform. The upshot is that you can lose your licence, and livelyhood, and the staff can lose their jobs. You wouldn't do it as a one off as they could report you. As the RAF spokeswoman said, "personnel in the Navy, Army or RAF are not allowed to enter any pub in uniform, unless it is for a wedding or funeral.

jf wrote:

phantom flan flinger wrote: Billy did you actualy read the story? The Cross Keys and 5 other Pubs in the area said they recieved letters from the base asking them not to serve personel in uniform. They were doing w3hat was asked of them. Anyway I've been refused service for wearing my work clothes, whats the difference?

phantomflan flinge-did you actually read the story? where does it say 5 other pubs received the same letters? Quote- ten other Witney pubs told the Gazette they had never received any such request from the airbase. Could you explain please? Work clothes I can understand.Especiall y if Builders clothes or such like.These men in uniform are totally different! They have been fighting a war risking their lives for goodness sake! How you can compare your work clothes on the same level -beggers belief!

Whoops my mistake.
Still oufcboyce makes my point in a much more succinct manor!

"Read the article you muppets, it states at the end that members of the armed forces aren't permitted to enter pubs in uniform"
No it doesn't Miss Piggy. It says"...unless for wedding or funeral"
The MOD showing value for money again, because of course Sinn Fein/IRA would not murder our soldiers if they were attending a wedding or a funeral. I'm sure the desk bound strategist who thought that one up is still getting a 6 figure annual bonus from the taxpayer.

We should support our boys , anyone in there should of offered to buy these brave lads a drink.

Lord Palmerston wrote:
"Read the article you muppets, it states at the end that members of the armed forces aren't permitted to enter pubs in uniform" No it doesn't Miss Piggy. It says"...unless for wedding or funeral" The MOD showing value for money again, because of course Sinn Fein/IRA would not murder our soldiers if they were attending a wedding or a funeral. I'm sure the desk bound strategist who thought that one up is still getting a 6 figure annual bonus from the taxpayer.

Alright settle down Lord. I was merely stating that it's a pretty p1ss poor excuse for a piece of journalism, so a couple of troops were refused service in a pub, the situation could clearly have been handled better....but hey! The article's designed to get people's back's up, hence the line: "A SOLDIER who risked his life in Afghanistan and Iraq" The events in Luton in March, were disgusting and disgracefull, this isnt.

I was once in a pub in Bicester when our local squaddies decided it would be a great idea to set a tear gas canister off. 3 days later the pain disappeared, but as the base closed ranks no responsibility was ever taken for this.

There are many pubs in barracks towns where service personnel are not welcome and it's nothing to do with a lack of patriotism by the staff.

The soldiers were in the wrong, they know they shouldn't go into a pub so The Cross Keys did exactly as they should have done. I'm getting sick of hearing how wonderful the soldiers are, they choose to do a dangerous job, they aren't made to sign up. There is a real over the top reaction to them in this country at the moment with people such as Joe Cooke expecting the public to treat them like God's.

They broke the rules and were told to leave. Newsworthy? No. Naff journalism? Yes.

So the Headline should read
"Soldier refused service in Witney pub . . . because pub staff followed the rules after being put in awkward position by idiot soldiers"

Whitto wrote:
So the Headline should read "Soldier refused service in Witney pub . . . because pub staff followed the rules after being put in awkward position by idiot soldiers"

Perfect!

Whitto wrote:
So the Headline should read "Soldier refused service in Witney pub . . . because pub staff followed the rules after being put in awkward position by idiot soldiers"

Perfectly put!

They broke service regulations... END OF STORY!!!!!!! they do a good job for our country but RULES are RULES!!!!!!!!! and there is a lovely baguette shop 50 meters away that do a fine selection of fillings, they should have gone there.

funnily enough the code word in the box is FOOD-MEAL

Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

They broke service regulations... END OF STORY!!!!!!! they do a good job for our country but RULES are RULES!!!!!!!!! and there is a lovely baguette shop 50 meters away that do a fine selection of fillings, they should have gone there.

funnily enough the code word in the box is FOOD-MEAL

I was disgusted not to be served while in school uniform. Mind you- I was 12 at the time...

As a wife of a RAF corporal I believe the rules were that personnel are allowed into pubs but are not allowed to drink alcohol. But I think its rather lame to refuse these soldiers. Trouble usually happens with squaddies when they aren't in uniform and out on a Saturday night on the p***.

Night life Oxford wrote:
Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Disgraceful comment!

Yes-their choice.They did NOT sign up thinking it will be a long holiday.

They are willing to put their lives or even lost their lives to give everyone freedom!

As did the brave war dead from the last 2 major wars.If it was not for them-you wouldn't be worrying whether your hair looked good coming out of the Hairdressers or which 5 or more choices of food to pick from Tesco's!

You should be ashamed of yourself!

It was deemed right not to wear in the 70's not to wear in public as it was unsafe.But the Government said a year or so ago to encourage wearing in public and be proud!

jf wrote:

Night life Oxford wrote: Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Disgraceful comment! Yes-their choice.They did NOT sign up thinking it will be a long holiday. They are willing to put their lives or even lost their lives to give everyone freedom! As did the brave war dead from the last 2 major wars.If it was not for them-you wouldn't be worrying whether your hair looked good coming out of the Hairdressers or which 5 or more choices of food to pick from Tesco's! You should be ashamed of yourself! It was deemed right not to wear in the 70's not to wear in public as it was unsafe.But the Government said a year or so ago to encourage wearing in public and be proud!

Get over yourself JF. This is a forum for free speech, so to brand it disgraceful is disrespectful by you. The level of 'gratitude' is getting to ridiculous levels and comments like yours shows just much. Yes, the soldiers do an excellent job, but wouldn't you imagine that so called regimented people should understand rules and regulations and stick to them? But no, they blatantly ignore a rule that they shouldn't go into a pub whilst in uniform. They then put bar staff in an awful situation who have to do as they are told by their management. Why should soliders get special treatment? What about doctors and nurses who do an equally important job but don't get the pathetic hero worship that muppets like you give them?? Soldiers are paid to do a job that THEY chose to do. They go to war knowing what the consequences are.

"Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food"
Perfectly true but there may not be any Tescos without defence against external enemies. I think Germany may first be aware of this, since it has shown up its troops as unprepared to fight. This will not have gone unnoticed by a Soviet Union whose chaotic administration will rapidly impoverish it when the oil runs out. Germany will be rich and defenceless;what would you do? Don't underestimate the value of our armed forces.

Superstar2167 wrote:
As a wife of a RAF corporal I believe the rules were that personnel are allowed into pubs but are not allowed to drink alcohol. But I think its rather lame to refuse these soldiers. Trouble usually happens with squaddies when they aren't in uniform and out on a Saturday night on the p***.

Superstar,
Incorrect. HM Forces are not allowed in pubs in uniform. The rules are tri-service. For example the RAF regs

RAF

'0113.

Occasion on which uniform is not to be worn.

b. Visits to licensed premises (including when not consuming alcohol), except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command.'

When, in the not-too- distant future, Europe is plunged into armed civil or other strife (no prizes for guessing the causes) people like Andy of Wirney Town will be thanking their lucky stars for the likes of the soldiers refused service in the Cross Keys.

Kipling's words show a somewhat better appreciation of the British soldier:

O there'll come a day
When they give you all your pay,
And treat you like a Christian ought to do;
So, until that day comes round,
Heaven keep you safe and sound,
And, Thomas, here's my best respects to you!

jf wrote:

Night life Oxford wrote: Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Disgraceful comment! Yes-their choice.They did NOT sign up thinking it will be a long holiday. They are willing to put their lives or even lost their lives to give everyone freedom! As did the brave war dead from the last 2 major wars.If it was not for them-you wouldn't be worrying whether your hair looked good coming out of the Hairdressers or which 5 or more choices of food to pick from Tesco's! You should be ashamed of yourself! It was deemed right not to wear in the 70's not to wear in public as it was unsafe.But the Government said a year or so ago to encourage wearing in public and be proud!

We're not talking about previous wars though are we, this is 2009, the point is there is so much praise for armed personnel and very little for those that get us by in our everyday roles. Its not mandatory that you have to sign up and join the forces, its their choice, just like whether i choose to cross the road or not. You don't sign up thinking that you'll get to defend bournemouth beach from german towel thieves, you know there is a 99% chance that you will see conflict. Grow up and read the original OM article as you seem to be way off point.

Andy_Witney wrote:

jf wrote:

Night life Oxford wrote: Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Disgraceful comment! Yes-their choice.They did NOT sign up thinking it will be a long holiday. They are willing to put their lives or even lost their lives to give everyone freedom! As did the brave war dead from the last 2 major wars.If it was not for them-you wouldn't be worrying whether your hair looked good coming out of the Hairdressers or which 5 or more choices of food to pick from Tesco's! You should be ashamed of yourself! It was deemed right not to wear in the 70's not to wear in public as it was unsafe.But the Government said a year or so ago to encourage wearing in public and be proud!

Get over yourself JF. This is a forum for free speech, so to brand it disgraceful is disrespectful by you. The level of 'gratitude' is getting to ridiculous levels and comments like yours shows just much. Yes, the soldiers do an excellent job, but wouldn't you imagine that so called regimented people should understand rules and regulations and stick to them? But no, they blatantly ignore a rule that they shouldn't go into a pub whilst in uniform. They then put bar staff in an awful situation who have to do as they are told by their management. Why should soliders get special treatment? What about doctors and nurses who do an equally important job but don't get the pathetic hero worship that muppets like you give them?? Soldiers are paid to do a job that THEY chose to do. They go to war knowing what the consequences are.

Get over it yourself! If you leave a disgraceful comment like yours you deserve no respect!

You my man should get off your back side and realise exactly what freedom is!

That is saying disgracful comments like yours are allowed being they died giving you that freedom!

As I mentioned before-it is no regulation anymore since the last year or 2!

As I said-you should be ashamed of yourself.

jf wrote:

Andy_Witney wrote:

jf wrote:

Night life Oxford wrote: Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Disgraceful comment! Yes-their choice.They did NOT sign up thinking it will be a long holiday. They are willing to put their lives or even lost their lives to give everyone freedom! As did the brave war dead from the last 2 major wars.If it was not for them-you wouldn't be worrying whether your hair looked good coming out of the Hairdressers or which 5 or more choices of food to pick from Tesco's! You should be ashamed of yourself! It was deemed right not to wear in the 70's not to wear in public as it was unsafe.But the Government said a year or so ago to encourage wearing in public and be proud!

Get over yourself JF. This is a forum for free speech, so to brand it disgraceful is disrespectful by you. The level of 'gratitude' is getting to ridiculous levels and comments like yours shows just much. Yes, the soldiers do an excellent job, but wouldn't you imagine that so called regimented people should understand rules and regulations and stick to them? But no, they blatantly ignore a rule that they shouldn't go into a pub whilst in uniform. They then put bar staff in an awful situation who have to do as they are told by their management. Why should soliders get special treatment? What about doctors and nurses who do an equally important job but don't get the pathetic hero worship that muppets like you give them?? Soldiers are paid to do a job that THEY chose to do. They go to war knowing what the consequences are.

Get over it yourself! If you leave a disgraceful comment like yours you deserve no respect! You my man should get off your back side and realise exactly what freedom is! That is saying disgracful comments like yours are allowed being they died giving you that freedom! As I mentioned before-it is no regulation anymore since the last year or 2! As I said-you should be ashamed of yourself.

So JF, did you have a problem with reading the contents of this news story? Or just blinkered in your beliefs that all soldiers should be up on a pedestal for you and the public to worship. Maybe you just came on looking for an argument with people that dare to have an opinion that differs from your own.
.
Fact 1: Read above to see the quote 'RAF Brize Norton spokes- man Katie Zasada said: “Any personnel in the Navy, Army or RAF are not allowed to enter any pub in uniform, unless it is for a wedding or funeral. There has not been communication between us and the pubs, but they should not be putting them in that situation in the first place."' It wasn't a wedding or funeral so YOU ARE WRONG and the SOLDIERS WERE IN THE WRONG.
.
Fact 2: I know my history and now how those in the 1st and 2nd World Wars helped to give me the life that I am accustomed. I just do not feel the need to buy a soldier a drink, give him a free football ticket just for doing his or her job. Again, you haven't read the comments of posters to see what this argument is actually about.
.
The Oxford Mail and Liam Sloan in particular have caused an almighty argument with pathetically poor journalism, and people such as you have fuelled it. Going back to the reason for this story, the OM have sensationally come up with their headline 'Soldier refused service in Witney pub . . . because he was in uniform' when in fact it should have read 'Pub in Rule Upholding Mean's Soldiers Breaking Rules Don't Get Served'. Even better, don't publish it, as if they bothered to stick to the facts, this isn't even a story. If anybody should be ashamed, it should be Mr Sloan and his editor.

I would have bought them a pint!
I would avoid the Cross Keys!
I often drink in Witney!
Even in my builders work clothes!
Thats my oppion!

Be interesting if Starbucks opens in Witney, they have refused to serve service personnel whilst there in uniforms!

who care's if the soldier's, were wrong .if our green fields, of England were invaded who would you have hairdresser or the best soldier's in the world.Pint is not to much to ask is it.

i belive that military law says that a soldier can not buy or consume ALCOHOL while in uniform.
now call me nieve but you don't need to drink alcohol in a pub.
the cross keys had no right to eject them.
they could have just refuse to serve them alcohol.

So Calfox3, you know better than a spokesperson from Brize Norton?

I wouldn't call you 'nieve', maybe stupid is closer to the point if you don't bother to read what is in front of you in black and white.

well have you been in the military?
some how i don't think so.
and for all you know i could be military police. but im guessing that evan the most green of recruits would know more about military law than you.
but the point i was trying to make is that people often go to the pub for lunch and dont drink alcohol. they dont get refused service. i never got refused in uniform. the closest i got to a refusal was being told "as long as your quiet and soft drinks only"

No, never been in the military so you've got that right. If you were military police, then you would know the law or are you saying on record that Katie Zasada is wrong? I would also expect that 'the most green of recruits' would know more than me about military law, but I take notice of people that do know it. Obviously unlike you.

Tommyjo wrote:

Superstar2167 wrote: As a wife of a RAF corporal I believe the rules were that personnel are allowed into pubs but are not allowed to drink alcohol. But I think its rather lame to refuse these soldiers. Trouble usually happens with squaddies when they aren't in uniform and out on a Saturday night on the p***.

Superstar, Incorrect. HM Forces are not allowed in pubs in uniform. The rules are tri-service. For example the RAF regs RAF '0113. Occasion on which uniform is not to be worn. b. Visits to licensed premises (including when not consuming alcohol), except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command.'

oh yeah because the " Naff journalism" know it!

i would like to point out the last centance by Tommyjo

"except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command."

There is a certain amount of irony in this when you know the landlady and what her job used to be! Yet another pub to avoid in Witney. Sick Sick Sick

What a lot of fuss over nothing! Pub landlords have the absolute right to refuse service to whoever they please, without the need to give a reason. There are plenty of pubs (and non-pub eating places) in Witney to choose from - just go somewhere else and stop bleating on about how hard done by you are!

Green123 wrote:
What a lot of fuss over nothing! Pub landlords have the absolute right to refuse service to whoever they please, without the need to give a reason. There are plenty of pubs (and non-pub eating places) in Witney to choose from - just go somewhere else and stop bleating on about how hard done by you are!

Don't forget who you are talking about. This is about soldiers, more important than any other breed of human being. The God's that we must bow down to, serve without question and kiss their feet whenever we see them in their uniform. We normal people are not worthy!

calfox3 wrote:

Tommyjo wrote:

Superstar2167 wrote: As a wife of a RAF corporal I believe the rules were that personnel are allowed into pubs but are not allowed to drink alcohol. But I think its rather lame to refuse these soldiers. Trouble usually happens with squaddies when they aren't in uniform and out on a Saturday night on the p***.

Superstar, Incorrect. HM Forces are not allowed in pubs in uniform. The rules are tri-service. For example the RAF regs RAF '0113. Occasion on which uniform is not to be worn. b. Visits to licensed premises (including when not consuming alcohol), except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command.'

oh yeah because the " Naff journalism" know it!

i would like to point out the last centance by Tommyjo

"except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command."

That 'specifically approved by the Chain of Command' would only be in special circumstances. For example a specific funeral wake where the pub was approached before hand and everyone was in agreement.

Unfortunately the Soldiers should know the rules and not put licensed premises in that situation. All they have to do is eat somewhere that is non-licensed.

It is a non-story blown out of all proportions.

Andy_Witney wrote:

jf wrote:

Andy_Witney wrote:

jf wrote:

Night life Oxford wrote: Why does everyone harp on about the hard work that they do?. It's their own choice to sign up. Your telling me that those signing up now are niave enough to think that they'll only be taking in the sites of colchester and day trips to salisbury plain!. Where would you be without hairdressers, funeral directors dentists? Next time you're out, by a tescos delivery driver a pint, coz without him, how'd you get your food. I know of NO oxford city centre late night venue that allows service personnel in wearing uniforms. I think the main issue is they went drinking in witney! Please, would you go drinking in witney?

Disgraceful comment! Yes-their choice.They did NOT sign up thinking it will be a long holiday. They are willing to put their lives or even lost their lives to give everyone freedom! As did the brave war dead from the last 2 major wars.If it was not for them-you wouldn't be worrying whether your hair looked good coming out of the Hairdressers or which 5 or more choices of food to pick from Tesco's! You should be ashamed of yourself! It was deemed right not to wear in the 70's not to wear in public as it was unsafe.But the Government said a year or so ago to encourage wearing in public and be proud!

Get over yourself JF. This is a forum for free speech, so to brand it disgraceful is disrespectful by you. The level of 'gratitude' is getting to ridiculous levels and comments like yours shows just much. Yes, the soldiers do an excellent job, but wouldn't you imagine that so called regimented people should understand rules and regulations and stick to them? But no, they blatantly ignore a rule that they shouldn't go into a pub whilst in uniform. They then put bar staff in an awful situation who have to do as they are told by their management. Why should soliders get special treatment? What about doctors and nurses who do an equally important job but don't get the pathetic hero worship that muppets like you give them?? Soldiers are paid to do a job that THEY chose to do. They go to war knowing what the consequences are.

Get over it yourself! If you leave a disgraceful comment like yours you deserve no respect! You my man should get off your back side and realise exactly what freedom is! That is saying disgracful comments like yours are allowed being they died giving you that freedom! As I mentioned before-it is no regulation anymore since the last year or 2! As I said-you should be ashamed of yourself.

So JF, did you have a problem with reading the contents of this news story? Or just blinkered in your beliefs that all soldiers should be up on a pedestal for you and the public to worship. Maybe you just came on looking for an argument with people that dare to have an opinion that differs from your own.
.
Fact 1: Read above to see the quote 'RAF Brize Norton spokes- man Katie Zasada said: “Any personnel in the Navy, Army or RAF are not allowed to enter any pub in uniform, unless it is for a wedding or funeral. There has not been communication between us and the pubs, but they should not be putting them in that situation in the first place."' It wasn't a wedding or funeral so YOU ARE WRONG and the SOLDIERS WERE IN THE WRONG.
.
Fact 2: I know my history and now how those in the 1st and 2nd World Wars helped to give me the life that I am accustomed. I just do not feel the need to buy a soldier a drink, give him a free football ticket just for doing his or her job. Again, you haven't read the comments of posters to see what this argument is actually about.
.
The Oxford Mail and Liam Sloan in particular have caused an almighty argument with pathetically poor journalism, and people such as you have fuelled it. Going back to the reason for this story, the OM have sensationally come up with their headline 'Soldier refused service in Witney pub . . . because he was in uniform' when in fact it should have read 'Pub in Rule Upholding Mean's Soldiers Breaking Rules Don't Get Served'. Even better, don't publish it, as if they bothered to stick to the facts, this isn't even a story. If anybody should be ashamed, it should be Mr Sloan and his editor.

She is out of date with her comment.

It has been well documented over the last year or so by the Goverment -They should wear their uniforms in public and be proud of it. As I have said 2 x before-the article states-this was in the 70s and came into regulation because of the I.R.A. This is not the case now.

I have no problem with reading the content of this story.
I have read All comments.I have not fuelled it. I do know what it is all about!

I have tried to point out-freedom is because of both 2 world wars and now!

We must give them them all the respect they deserve.Then and now!

If you believe as you say- I know my history and now how those in the 1st and 2nd World Wars helped to give me the life that I am accustomed to-why can you not stand up and say-I am grateful.The fight must carry on!

We have lived in too a secular society to appease everyone lately.We can't offend this person or that person. If we hadn't of fought the Germans then,they would of ruled England.Now it seems the Taliban and Muslims(not all of them) may rule this country!

Do you want that?!

I will now quote now what he says-

Kipling's words show a somewhat better appreciation of the British soldier:

O there'll come a day
When they give you all your pay,
And treat you like a Christian ought to do;
So, until that day comes round,
Heaven keep you safe and sound,
And, Thomas, here's my best respects to you.

That goes to all soldiers of today and past!

Quite right!

Heaven help you and the rest of us- if we give our freedom up!

I am proud to be British. If I was not so physcially diasabled- I would willingly be there to carry on the fight!

As I can't- I support them publicly.

All they did after the their stint out there( which 9 of his work mates had lost theirs lives) called in for a coke and a meal after a recruitment day! Nothing wrong in that! They are proud to be British and continue to fight for US!

Go do something useful and be grateful for everything we have!

For you arrogant idiots that have taken to slating our brave military forces defending the decisions made by the leaders of this country I would just like to say this......

In the run up to christmas treasure your children, look after your family, love your partners but above all remember and spare a thought for the hundreds of wives, girlfriends, mothers, fathers, grandparents and children that will be without the special loved one that went to defend his or her country and came back via wootten bassett in a wooden box.....

I would also urge you to take the time out of your preciously sad and empty lives to visit wootten bassett for a repatriation, tap the grieving family on the shoulder and tell them exactly what you have written here....but I doubt you yellow bellied lilly livered good for nothings can barely get out of bed in the morning to sign your dole cheques never mind take your arguement to those who have lost loved ones in a war we shouldnt be fighting....BUT DO !!!

They are all heroes, and yes they do know the risk when joining up, as did the heroes of every other war or conflict of the past, but does that make it open season on them for carrying out thier job and doing it well. You civilians wont even pick up a bag of sugar without proclaiming it might be a two man lift or wanting overtime if it occurs a second outside your normal working hours and then taking two weeks sick leave because it may have injured your back....You seek the benefit of Health and Safety or the umbrella of the Union where these brave men are running into hails of bullets without as much as a blinking eye and you sit there and criticise !!!!! you disgust me !!!!

Personally I would take every one of you and put you on the front line in hellmand then spit on your coffin when you returned...you make me sick and I hope every ounce of bad luck befriends you and all your family.

As for the landlord/lady of the cross keys, they should be bull whipped through the streets of your pathetic town and shown for the pathetic cowards they really are....what is witney anyway.....a small non-specific oxfordshire market town with nothing to be proud of.

You make me sick !!!!!

calfox3 wrote:
well have you been in the military?
some how i don't think so.
and for all you know i could be military police. but im guessing that evan the most green of recruits would know more about military law than you.
but the point i was trying to make is that people often go to the pub for lunch and dont drink alcohol. they dont get refused service. i never got refused in uniform. the closest i got to a refusal was being told "as long as your quiet and soft drinks only"

Calfox3 - can you not read. Both the quote in the original story, then subsequently the quote of RAF regulations in the comments. I will repeat them again for you:
"RAF regs RAF '0113. Occasion on which uniform is not to be worn. b. Visits to licensed premises (including when not consuming alcohol), except when specifically approved by the Chain of Command.'"

Absolute, clear and unequivocal - uniform is not to be worn in licensed premises whether for the purpose of consuming alcohol or not.

HarryPotter wrote:
For you arrogant idiots that have taken to slating our brave military forces defending the decisions made by the leaders of this country I would just like to say this...... In the run up to christmas treasure your children, look after your family, love your partners but above all remember and spare a thought for the hundreds of wives, girlfriends, mothers, fathers, grandparents and children that will be without the special loved one that went to defend his or her country and came back via wootten bassett in a wooden box..... I would also urge you to take the time out of your preciously sad and empty lives to visit wootten bassett for a repatriation, tap the grieving family on the shoulder and tell them exactly what you have written here....but I doubt you yellow bellied lilly livered good for nothings can barely get out of bed in the morning to sign your dole cheques never mind take your arguement to those who have lost loved ones in a war we shouldnt be fighting....BUT DO !!! They are all heroes, and yes they do know the risk when joining up, as did the heroes of every other war or conflict of the past, but does that make it open season on them for carrying out thier job and doing it well. You civilians wont even pick up a bag of sugar without proclaiming it might be a two man lift or wanting overtime if it occurs a second outside your normal working hours and then taking two weeks sick leave because it may have injured your back....You seek the benefit of Health and Safety or the umbrella of the Union where these brave men are running into hails of bullets without as much as a blinking eye and you sit there and criticise !!!!! you disgust me !!!! Personally I would take every one of you and put you on the front line in hellmand then spit on your coffin when you returned...you make me sick and I hope every ounce of bad luck befriends you and all your family. As for the landlord/lady of the cross keys, they should be bull whipped through the streets of your pathetic town and shown for the pathetic cowards they really are....what is witney anyway.....a small non-specific oxfordshire market town with nothing to be proud of. You make me sick !!!!!

Oh how good that must have made you feel typing that complete and utter load of bull. It's the kind of rubbish you speak that actually makes people fed up to the back teeth of hearing about our saintly military. THEY GET PAID TO DO A JOB, THEIR CHOICE. If they die, that is a consequence of their job. Sad but true. Oh and by the way, what have you got to be proud of in Swindon?? The bloody magic roundabout?

Like I said Andy of pathetic witney...you should be sent to the front line and taste what they have had to go through...its people like you that have diluted our country into the weak and disgraceful society we now have to suffer...I would suspect the biggest achievement of your life was catching a bus to join the back of the dole queue...get a life you waster and come and photograph the majestic magic roundabout...assumin
g, of course, you can navigate your way past the confines of your counties boundary....which is probably as small as your vocabulary !!!!

Just looking at this from another angle considering the speed at which the post count on this story has increased:
I wonder if there is a link between the number of comments that are posted on the OM website and advertising revenue?
I wonder if the person responsible at the OM, for selling advertising space on their websites, uses the numbers of posts to encourage potential clients?
Maybe the OM are smarter than all of us? Are they “reporting” news and creating headlines that they know will provoke a response.

Tommyjo. You say they should go and eat somewhere that is not licensed. Unless they want a bag of crisps or a sandwich that is practically impossible. Even Pizza Hut is licensed so are they banned from there as well?

bloody hell are you lot still going on about this?!! its a minor story on a slow news day worthy of one or two comments.
i gave my opinion and that was that.
but when you have (so called) people like andy that launch personal attack on others that disagree with them.
so andy try and stay on the subject or dont bother!!!

How absolutely pathetic . . . "Boycott the place !" Let's hope that if there is every any real trouble in this public house, then the police will refuse to enter in because they too are in a uniform !

I think this may be a good opportunity to say "get a life".

Thank you

Petr mcvey wrote:
Tommyjo. You say they should go and eat somewhere that is not licensed. Unless they want a bag of crisps or a sandwich that is practically impossible. Even Pizza Hut is licensed so are they banned from there as well?

It isn't practically impossible at all. The Soldiers should know the rules and not put pubs in that position in the first place. It is a tough and restrictive rule, yes, but none of these stories would come to light in the first place if the service personnel didn't attempt to enter pubs while still in uniform.

If the rule was dropped it would be a minority that would abuse it and then all service personnel get tarred with the same brush. Certain parts of the media would have a field day with stories and pictures of service personnel drunk in uniform.

HM Forces is a cross section of the community and within that cross section there is a small minority who would abuse it. Alcohol and drugs abuse exist in the forces and is carried out by a small idiotic minority. That small minority has an impact on the rest of HM Forces.

As a former, recently retired, serviceman the last thing that I want is that small minority given a chance to bring embarrassment on the forces and especially in uniform.

Some elements of that HM Forces minority can't handle drink whilst in civilian clothes. Imagine the impact it would have if public drinking was allowed in uniform? It would be a recipe for disaster abused by a minority and that is why strict rules are in force.

Nah, firemen don't wear their uniforms in the pub, neither do the police, my butcher always takes his pinny off. Its best not to wear any uniform in pubs, unless its for charity.

harrypotter Swindon. Just a tad too harsh, though i do like your written word, but do check your spelling!! and Oxford Mail, shame on you! Stop trying to be a national newspaper, the only thing worth reading in your paper is the obits!!!

goblin wrote:
harrypotter Swindon. Just a tad too harsh, though i do like your written word, but do check your spelling!! and Oxford Mail, shame on you! Stop trying to be a national newspaper, the only thing worth reading in your paper is the obits!!!

Spelling and grammar is not important!

Good grief!

As an ex-serviceman myself, i fail to understand why there's the shock, horror! to not being served in a pub; It would be a case of fairy snuff then move on to the next pub, this, i'm feeling persecuted because "I'm a serviceman", is getting somewhat tiresome; it's fantastic to see the Armed Forces getting support and praise but that doesn't mean we are beyond reproach.

What happens now? Should the Gazette print an apology to the Keys for causing this furore?

Seems like the entire incident was not even news worthy - evidence of which is that this story has now made the Daily Mail website.

I even knew that military personel were not allowed in to pubs in uniform so the soldiers must have done.

Their rules, their fault. If the rules are not suitable anymore then they need to change them.

Its not the Keys who are to blame here.

Harry Potter your personal abuse goes beyond the pale here. You have no idea about whether anyone her is on the 'dole' or not and even if they are you have no right to stigmatize people in this way - you sir disgust ME! There are many very qualified and hard working people who are unemployed right now because of the recession so your comments are ill conceived and offensive in the extreme. I agree with other that there is too much hero worship of the soldiiers doing the job they signed up for and are paid to do. Perhaps you could put away your right wing prejudice her and keep to the facts - no one except the soldiers did anything so lets stop all this jingoistic nonsense shall we - it is not 1939 here with Vera Lyn playing in the background. And for your information, Witney is not a pathetic little town - some might that is a bit rich coming from someone living in Chavville - pots kettles and all that ? But I couldn't possible comment.

TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)



I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

o0mojorisin0o wrote:
TOMMY by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936) I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here." The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I: O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play. I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls! For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide. Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap; An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit. Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll. We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints, Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind", But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind. You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all: We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace. For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

And the actual relevance to this particular item of news is what?