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Speed camera attacked
10:19pm Monday 7th January 2008
Comments (21)A speed camera was damaged and set on fire following a vandal attack.
A householder living near the camera, on the A420 at Cumnor, near Oxford, alerted the police after seeing flames.
The member of the public told police they had seen someone attempting to cut the housing from the camera, located in a 50mph zone opposite the turn for Hartwell Landrover, just before 9.50pm, on Sunday. The resident said the attacker then set it alight, Thames Valley Police Safer Roads Partnership spokesman Dan Campsall said: "We don't normally have a problem in this area.
"At this stage we wouldn't know if the person who damaged the camera had received a ticket and was disgruntled, or if it was someone who was just anti-speed cameras."
He added: "It will be fixed. The priority is to make sure that it is safe.
"We will assess the level of damage to the housing and make a decision to remove it or repair it."
Thames Valley Police are investigating the incident.
Your Say YourOxford Mail
alan page, says...
11:03pm Mon 7 Jan 08
Alan Page wrote:Well that's your opinion anyway.
Justified i think.
But then I suppose anybody who supports the ALF is going to support this form of mindless behaviour.
Annoyed, With a hammer and spraypaint says...
11:18pm Mon 7 Jan 08
TVP reckon they don't have much of a problem in this area? Gosh, I'm obviously not trying hard enough. At least they've helped me make plans for tonight!
If you 6'6" guy by a burning speed camera feel free to say hello!
If you 6'6" guy by a burning speed camera feel free to say hello!
Alan Page, says...
11:44pm Mon 7 Jan 08
alan page wrote:Good lord are there really two of us. Perhaps your winding me up?
Alan Page wrote: Justified i think.Well that's your opinion anyway. But then I suppose anybody who supports the ALF is going to support this form of mindless behaviour.
Anon, Witney says...
12:56am Tue 8 Jan 08
Alan Page wrote:Perhaps you mean "you're". Grow some braincells before making stupid comments :D
alan page wrote:Good lord are there really two of us. Perhaps your winding me up?
Alan Page wrote: Justified i think.Well that's your opinion anyway. But then I suppose anybody who supports the ALF is going to support this form of mindless behaviour.
joe, East Oxford says...
12:46pm Tue 8 Jan 08
If anyone requires spray paint, inflammable fluids or sledgehammers please let me know.
Free delivery for orders over £10-00.
Good luck.
As you notice I live in East Oxford so cannot afford
my own vehicle
Normally manage to aquire one though.
Free delivery for orders over £10-00.
Good luck.
As you notice I live in East Oxford so cannot afford
my own vehicle
Normally manage to aquire one though.
Not Alan or alan?, Confused says...
12:52pm Tue 8 Jan 08
There appears to be an echo in this comment site!
Not Alan or alan?, Abingdon says...
1:05pm Tue 8 Jan 08
There appears to be an echo within this comments site!
Wilbur, says...
1:11pm Tue 8 Jan 08
I hate speed cameras with a passion, but can I ask those determined to do them damage to remain calm. As over the last few months it's becoming clear that all is not well on the national partnerships front.
An article today shows that the IPCC are continuing to investigate these cameras and their use.
Hundreds get refunds in 'unsafe' mobile speed traps.
POLICE are handing back hundreds of fines to drivers after speed cameras were found to be wrongly set up. The Lancashire force has been order to rescind the fines, including those for drivers on the Fylde, after a probe by an independent police watchdog.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) launched an investigation last autumn after allegations that a member of staff had failed to correctly calibrated speed cameras and that four members of staff had failed to process court documents correctly at Lancashire Police's central processing unit in Blackburn.
The IPCC spokesman said: "The IPCC can confirm that the process of rescinding speeding tickets has begun as a result of information uncovered during the investigation.
"The investigation is ongoing, but Lancashire Constabulary has written to approximately 300 motorists so far whose convictions have been deemed unsafe."
Anti-speed camera campaigners say lives could have been ruined by the faulty cameras as motorists risked bans which could cost them their living.
Lancashire Police refused to comment until the investigation was concluded.
Previously other articles have shown that areas without camera partnerships, Durham and North Yorkshire are making camera policy look redundant as at this time, it is only areas with no cameras who rely on traditionaly policing that are showing any significant reduction in casualties on our roads.
No, surprise there I hear you say, I agree, but burning the things just entrenches the people who believe in them further as they think it's being done because they actually work.
An article today shows that the IPCC are continuing to investigate these cameras and their use.
Hundreds get refunds in 'unsafe' mobile speed traps.
POLICE are handing back hundreds of fines to drivers after speed cameras were found to be wrongly set up. The Lancashire force has been order to rescind the fines, including those for drivers on the Fylde, after a probe by an independent police watchdog.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) launched an investigation last autumn after allegations that a member of staff had failed to correctly calibrated speed cameras and that four members of staff had failed to process court documents correctly at Lancashire Police's central processing unit in Blackburn.
The IPCC spokesman said: "The IPCC can confirm that the process of rescinding speeding tickets has begun as a result of information uncovered during the investigation.
"The investigation is ongoing, but Lancashire Constabulary has written to approximately 300 motorists so far whose convictions have been deemed unsafe."
Anti-speed camera campaigners say lives could have been ruined by the faulty cameras as motorists risked bans which could cost them their living.
Lancashire Police refused to comment until the investigation was concluded.
Previously other articles have shown that areas without camera partnerships, Durham and North Yorkshire are making camera policy look redundant as at this time, it is only areas with no cameras who rely on traditionaly policing that are showing any significant reduction in casualties on our roads.
No, surprise there I hear you say, I agree, but burning the things just entrenches the people who believe in them further as they think it's being done because they actually work.
Carl Wallace, says...
2:29pm Tue 8 Jan 08
There's more than that, only in december one in Croydon went berserk and another two earlier in Cumbria.
All over the place evidence is building that camera policy is fatally flawed, the BBC screened a documentary about the LTi 20:20 hand held camera and how easy it was to 'misuse' it to give false readings. But government ministers continue to give the program their support, while on the road, the streetwise have figured out how to duck cameras and those remaining 'honest' drivers are being plaqued by faulty hardware and officials who clearly don't know what they're doing!
Meanwhile the 'pro camera' hysterics still believe the things are bullet proof and fail to understand the complaint from motorists most of whom are lawfully going about their business, although we aknowledge a minority of drivers are complete idiots it's just clear that the cameras aren't catching them!
All over the place evidence is building that camera policy is fatally flawed, the BBC screened a documentary about the LTi 20:20 hand held camera and how easy it was to 'misuse' it to give false readings. But government ministers continue to give the program their support, while on the road, the streetwise have figured out how to duck cameras and those remaining 'honest' drivers are being plaqued by faulty hardware and officials who clearly don't know what they're doing!
Meanwhile the 'pro camera' hysterics still believe the things are bullet proof and fail to understand the complaint from motorists most of whom are lawfully going about their business, although we aknowledge a minority of drivers are complete idiots it's just clear that the cameras aren't catching them!
lawman, says...
6:31pm Tue 8 Jan 08
if you don't exceed the speed limit you won't get fined. it's not rocket science!! ie no speeders = no need for speed cameras.
Mike, says...
7:30pm Tue 8 Jan 08
Contrary to your belief lawman, you're quite wrong.
These days with cameras breaking down all over the country, it appears you don't have to speed to get a ticket.
Although, I would find it highly amusing if you were one of the ones to get caught!
These days with cameras breaking down all over the country, it appears you don't have to speed to get a ticket.
Although, I would find it highly amusing if you were one of the ones to get caught!
Mike, says...
7:48pm Tue 8 Jan 08
I found that article in Cumbria from March last year and it says
"An official representative of the Cumbria, UK Speed Camera partnership was caught lying this week about a ticketing machine that flashed passing motorists, regardless of whether they had been speeding or not. Mourners in a slow-moving funeral procession Wednesday were disturbed by the camera on Salthouse Road in Barrow which left them to wonder whether they would find a ticket in the mail.
At first, a spokesman told the North-West Evening Mail newspaper that the flashing was intentional.
"It's a digital camera and we were just checking it was working properly," a spokesman said. "One of our technicians was working the camera to take random pictures so we could check that it was taking pictures properly and they were clear. We were not recording offences just making sure it was all working at certain times."
This turned out not to be true. Spokesman Andy James admitted to the Evening Mail that, in fact, the camera flashing was due to a fault with the camera."
There's was another one in Croydon before Christmas and this is just the ones that've been exposed by the media and that I know of.
How many of these things go wrong and people get prosecuted because of the amount of money it would cost to defend against them when no one would believe you anyway.
It seems it isn't just disgruntled speeders who're getting annoyed at speed cameras, because it can happen to anyone.
So watch your back lawman, you could be next!
"An official representative of the Cumbria, UK Speed Camera partnership was caught lying this week about a ticketing machine that flashed passing motorists, regardless of whether they had been speeding or not. Mourners in a slow-moving funeral procession Wednesday were disturbed by the camera on Salthouse Road in Barrow which left them to wonder whether they would find a ticket in the mail.
At first, a spokesman told the North-West Evening Mail newspaper that the flashing was intentional.
"It's a digital camera and we were just checking it was working properly," a spokesman said. "One of our technicians was working the camera to take random pictures so we could check that it was taking pictures properly and they were clear. We were not recording offences just making sure it was all working at certain times."
This turned out not to be true. Spokesman Andy James admitted to the Evening Mail that, in fact, the camera flashing was due to a fault with the camera."
There's was another one in Croydon before Christmas and this is just the ones that've been exposed by the media and that I know of.
How many of these things go wrong and people get prosecuted because of the amount of money it would cost to defend against them when no one would believe you anyway.
It seems it isn't just disgruntled speeders who're getting annoyed at speed cameras, because it can happen to anyone.
So watch your back lawman, you could be next!
lawman, says...
10:37pm Tue 8 Jan 08
if it says 30mph then drive at 30 mph, if it says 40 mph then drive at 40 mph, if it says 50 mph then drive at 50 mph. what is so wrong with road safety?
Mike, says...
10:55pm Tue 8 Jan 08
Nothings wrong with road safety lawman.
The cameras don't work, as it says above and in the press, convictions are being overturned due to faulty cameras, 300 in Lancashire alone.
Along with Croydon, Buckinghamshire, Cumbria to name but three.
It doesn't matter how you keep on explaining what a speed limit is, the devices for catching people speeding aren't working and they're convicting innocent people.
In one case a funeral car was flashed and the partnership manager lied to the press, but finally had to give in and admit it was a faulty camera, which to anyone who hasn't lost the plot, brings into question the validity of the whole system.
At this point, I'd like to reiterate that I don't support the burning of cameras, if for no other reason than innocent people and firemen could get hurt.
But as the liberals are calling to have more qualified traffic police back on the road mainly due to the rise in drink drive offences because since the camera partnerships took over, the government has reduced funding for casualty reduction to the police to rely on speed cameras, the number of missing officers is estimated to be around 18% at this time.
The conservatives are saying that speed cameras should not be used as a stealth tax and only for road safety and councils are pulling out of partnerships to run road safety campaigns themselves.
It isn't about speeding anymore, it's about the mechanism itself!
And just so that you know lawman, I don't approve of speeding, I don't want to increase speed limits they're fine as they are, I just want a return to a policing method that does work when it's becoming so clear that these cameras are inherantly faulty.
The cameras don't work, as it says above and in the press, convictions are being overturned due to faulty cameras, 300 in Lancashire alone.
Along with Croydon, Buckinghamshire, Cumbria to name but three.
It doesn't matter how you keep on explaining what a speed limit is, the devices for catching people speeding aren't working and they're convicting innocent people.
In one case a funeral car was flashed and the partnership manager lied to the press, but finally had to give in and admit it was a faulty camera, which to anyone who hasn't lost the plot, brings into question the validity of the whole system.
At this point, I'd like to reiterate that I don't support the burning of cameras, if for no other reason than innocent people and firemen could get hurt.
But as the liberals are calling to have more qualified traffic police back on the road mainly due to the rise in drink drive offences because since the camera partnerships took over, the government has reduced funding for casualty reduction to the police to rely on speed cameras, the number of missing officers is estimated to be around 18% at this time.
The conservatives are saying that speed cameras should not be used as a stealth tax and only for road safety and councils are pulling out of partnerships to run road safety campaigns themselves.
It isn't about speeding anymore, it's about the mechanism itself!
And just so that you know lawman, I don't approve of speeding, I don't want to increase speed limits they're fine as they are, I just want a return to a policing method that does work when it's becoming so clear that these cameras are inherantly faulty.
Yimitier, Lancashire says...
1:56am Thu 10 Jan 08
Regarding speed awareness courses in Lancashire and the IPCC investigation,the following contradictory
figures for the year 2005 - 2006 are as follows:
The following records are supposed to have been checked and authenticated by
the Audit Commission and the Department of Transport Lancashire Constabulary
& The DVLA.
Lacashire Road Safety Partnership
Project Manager: John Davies
Sent: 05 July 2007 11:31
Figures requested year 2005 - 2006
The disparity in the figures you quote is due to over
16000 people attending the Speed Awareness training course, approximately
9000 were cancelled due to mitigating circumstances, with the remainder
being summonsed to court.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE& STANDARDS PORTFOLIO
Information Assurance Services - Data Protection
Police Headquarters, Saunders Lane, Hutton, Preston PR4 5SB
Date 21 November 2007
Lancashire Constabulary Audited records.
(These are the figures recorded on the DVLA Police Database which restrict
members of the public to take another speed awareness course for 3 years.)
Thank you for your requests for information received on the 2200 October
2007.
In 2005/06 a total of 119,594 fixed penalty notices were issued.
32,139 of the 119,594 (26.87%) completed a speed awareness course.
5,911 of the 119,594 (4.94%) were cancelled.
(Lancashire Constabulary receive an administration fee from the speed
awareness courses for each person they record with the DVLA.)
Freedom Of Information {freedomofinformatio
n@lancscc.gov.uk]
Sent: 04 December 2007 16:45
Lancashire County Council Audited records.
Further to your email of 23'0 November 2007, in which you request the
disclosure of information under the provisions
of the above Act, we are now in a position to respond.
Between 1st April 2005 and 31sT March 2006, a total of 19,453 speed
awareness courses were taken. The total
income from these courses was £1,764,745. The total expenditure on the
courses was £1,607,682 therefore
the net surplus was £157,063.
The conflicting figures and discrepancies have been brought to the attention
of the DVLA and the Audit Commisioner for their comments.
For complete copies of the above correspondece download from here:
http://rapidshare.co
m/files/82470820/spe
edawareness2.pdf
These documents carry no restrictions nor are they connected with any active
court case or investigation.
figures for the year 2005 - 2006 are as follows:
The following records are supposed to have been checked and authenticated by
the Audit Commission and the Department of Transport Lancashire Constabulary
& The DVLA.
Lacashire Road Safety Partnership
Project Manager: John Davies
Sent: 05 July 2007 11:31
Figures requested year 2005 - 2006
The disparity in the figures you quote is due to over
16000 people attending the Speed Awareness training course, approximately
9000 were cancelled due to mitigating circumstances, with the remainder
being summonsed to court.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE& STANDARDS PORTFOLIO
Information Assurance Services - Data Protection
Police Headquarters, Saunders Lane, Hutton, Preston PR4 5SB
Date 21 November 2007
Lancashire Constabulary Audited records.
(These are the figures recorded on the DVLA Police Database which restrict
members of the public to take another speed awareness course for 3 years.)
Thank you for your requests for information received on the 2200 October
2007.
In 2005/06 a total of 119,594 fixed penalty notices were issued.
32,139 of the 119,594 (26.87%) completed a speed awareness course.
5,911 of the 119,594 (4.94%) were cancelled.
(Lancashire Constabulary receive an administration fee from the speed
awareness courses for each person they record with the DVLA.)
Freedom Of Information {freedomofinformatio
n@lancscc.gov.uk]
Sent: 04 December 2007 16:45
Lancashire County Council Audited records.
Further to your email of 23'0 November 2007, in which you request the
disclosure of information under the provisions
of the above Act, we are now in a position to respond.
Between 1st April 2005 and 31sT March 2006, a total of 19,453 speed
awareness courses were taken. The total
income from these courses was £1,764,745. The total expenditure on the
courses was £1,607,682 therefore
the net surplus was £157,063.
The conflicting figures and discrepancies have been brought to the attention
of the DVLA and the Audit Commisioner for their comments.
For complete copies of the above correspondece download from here:
http://rapidshare.co
m/files/82470820/spe
edawareness2.pdf
These documents carry no restrictions nor are they connected with any active
court case or investigation.
Safe Driver, says...
9:41am Thu 10 Jan 08
I have to agree with the comments above.
Setting fire to speed cameras isn't right, it is wrong to attempt to tackle the illegal activities of the camera partnerships with more illegal activity.
There is sufficient evidence across the country that both drivers and anti speed campaigners have been lied to on a wholesale basis about the accuracy of these so called 'safety cameras' and it is now time to demand that their use is declared illegal.
This absurd policy has divided the public brought around civil unrest resulting in arson and other criminal actions and worst of all has the potential to destroy a persons life through the loss of a license, or a job or even a house when a mortgage can't be paid, while all the time no substantial improvement to road safety can be demonstrated by any county except the ones who DO NOT have a camera partnership and operate a tradition 'real traffic police' regime where speeding drivers have to be apprehended.
The tide has now turned, never again will the phrase 'safety camera' been seen with anything other than derision and contempt.
There was never any justification for removing traffic officers from the roads to rely on these speed cameras, the authorities have left the public as a whole wide open to all kinds of danger on our roads, as the increase in drink drive related accidents show.
The speed camera program is a complete and utter faliure and must be scrapped ..NOW
We've been lied to and we now know it for a fact!
Setting fire to speed cameras isn't right, it is wrong to attempt to tackle the illegal activities of the camera partnerships with more illegal activity.
There is sufficient evidence across the country that both drivers and anti speed campaigners have been lied to on a wholesale basis about the accuracy of these so called 'safety cameras' and it is now time to demand that their use is declared illegal.
This absurd policy has divided the public brought around civil unrest resulting in arson and other criminal actions and worst of all has the potential to destroy a persons life through the loss of a license, or a job or even a house when a mortgage can't be paid, while all the time no substantial improvement to road safety can be demonstrated by any county except the ones who DO NOT have a camera partnership and operate a tradition 'real traffic police' regime where speeding drivers have to be apprehended.
The tide has now turned, never again will the phrase 'safety camera' been seen with anything other than derision and contempt.
There was never any justification for removing traffic officers from the roads to rely on these speed cameras, the authorities have left the public as a whole wide open to all kinds of danger on our roads, as the increase in drink drive related accidents show.
The speed camera program is a complete and utter faliure and must be scrapped ..NOW
We've been lied to and we now know it for a fact!
Whistler, says...
11:51am Thu 10 Jan 08
I'm don't think it's out and out lieing, I think it's simply incompetance.
I read an article in What Car last year, where one of the partnerships senior spokesmen proudly declared that Ferrari drivers were surprisingly better and more considerate law abiding drivers than as they put it 'Mondeo Man' because they very rarely catch high perfomance drivers speeding.
Leaving it to the editor of What Car to point out what should be obvious to anyone with even a few brain cells still connected.
With Fords being the best selling cars in britain, the statistical likelyhood of more Fords being caught than Ferraris was and should have been quite obvious and made the guy look like a complete mong!
I read an article in What Car last year, where one of the partnerships senior spokesmen proudly declared that Ferrari drivers were surprisingly better and more considerate law abiding drivers than as they put it 'Mondeo Man' because they very rarely catch high perfomance drivers speeding.
Leaving it to the editor of What Car to point out what should be obvious to anyone with even a few brain cells still connected.
With Fords being the best selling cars in britain, the statistical likelyhood of more Fords being caught than Ferraris was and should have been quite obvious and made the guy look like a complete mong!
Take a Chill Pill, says...
12:37pm Thu 10 Jan 08
It is becoming quite obvious that the over excitment of the anti speed brigade and their war on motorists has lead authoritys to make some quite startling decisions. I don't agree with people burning them, even if it is understandable, but I do think it's time civilians were taken out of the equation and the issue of law on the road put back in the hands of people who are trained and qualified to deal with their fellow citizens in matters of law, namely the police. Because these partnerships who only perform one function are now opennly obsessed and with the number of convictions being over turned by the courts and independant investigations because of faulty or baddly setup up equipment, their obsession is becoming more compelling to them, because as more innocent people are convicted illegally every year, the belief that they are doing the right thing has blinded them to their own statistics.
Sid, says...
1:37pm Sat 12 Jan 08
I have to agree, if a mini self styled authority like the camera partnerships want a 'zero tollerance' attitude to speeding, their staff and equipment must be proven to be 100% accurate all of the time.
This is simply not the case as more and more reports in the papers show.
Over the years thousands of convictions have had to be quashed and fines returned to innocent drivers because of the incompetence of this band of well meaning civilians.
In some of these convictions lives of innocent people could have been ruined if jobs were lost through the loss of a license, which could have resulted in not being able to pay mortgages and losing a house.
The spin doctored statistics of the partnerships have convinced the government to withold funding and not supply targets for casualty reductions to the police force resulting in a large drop in numbers of traffic police on britains streets as brought to our attention by the liberals when they demanded an increase in traffic officers to combat drink drive all year round instead of just a christmas campaign.
Speed camera policy was a good idea, the limited technology, the ease with which it can be circumvented and the ease with which partnership managers blatantly lie about their results as also reported in the media shows just how vulnerable the general public have become.
We are not safer, we are more at risk now than we have ever been.
This is simply not the case as more and more reports in the papers show.
Over the years thousands of convictions have had to be quashed and fines returned to innocent drivers because of the incompetence of this band of well meaning civilians.
In some of these convictions lives of innocent people could have been ruined if jobs were lost through the loss of a license, which could have resulted in not being able to pay mortgages and losing a house.
The spin doctored statistics of the partnerships have convinced the government to withold funding and not supply targets for casualty reductions to the police force resulting in a large drop in numbers of traffic police on britains streets as brought to our attention by the liberals when they demanded an increase in traffic officers to combat drink drive all year round instead of just a christmas campaign.
Speed camera policy was a good idea, the limited technology, the ease with which it can be circumvented and the ease with which partnership managers blatantly lie about their results as also reported in the media shows just how vulnerable the general public have become.
We are not safer, we are more at risk now than we have ever been.
Carl Matthews, Bristol UK says...
4:46pm Sun 1 Jun 08
Take a Chill Pill wrote:put back in the hands of people who are trained and qualified to deal with their fellow citizens in matters of law?
It is becoming quite obvious that the over excitment of the anti speed brigade and their war on motorists has lead authoritys to make some quite startling decisions. I don\'t agree with people burning them, even if it is understandable, but I do think it\'s time civilians were taken out of the equation and the issue of law on the road put back in the hands of people who are trained and qualified to deal with their fellow citizens in matters of law, namely the police. Because these partnerships who only perform one function are now opennly obsessed and with the number of convictions being over turned by the courts and independant investigations because of faulty or baddly setup up equipment, their obsession is becoming more compelling to them, because as more innocent people are convicted illegally every year, the belief that they are doing the right thing has blinded them to their own statistics.
Totally untrue - the training that the police get to operate LTI equipment lasts for about two minutes, 'look through here, point it at the vehicle and pull the trigger' - civilians get two weeks on the job traing before being 'let loose'. In addition, everything a civilian enforcement officer does is recorded on video tape. A police officer is just a civilian in a uniform, not an expert in speed enforcement.
Used correctly, the LTI is very accurate and the only time it can be questioned is through incorrect usage.
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Alan Page, says...
10:46pm Mon 7 Jan 08