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Union to vote on BNP debate

6:30am Tuesday 20th November 2007

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A controversial Oxford Union debate involving the BNP's leader and a Holocaust denier could be cancelled.

Historian David Irving, jailed in Austria for denying the Nazi execution of millions of Jews and British National Party leader Nick Griffin have both been invited to the Union's Free Speech Forum on Monday.

The invitation of the two men to speak at the Union has caused such a storm of protest that a rally has been planned in Oxford tonight and Defence Secretary Des Browne will boycott another debate he was invited to.

But last night Union president Luke Tryl said it would be put to members of the Union to vote on the issue on Friday A spokesman for the BNP said it was disappointed to hear the event might be cancelled. Mr Irving was unavailable for comment.

Mr Tryl said: "I want the final decision to be with the members of the society, and if they decide that we shouldn't invite Nick Griffin and David Irving, then I will cancel the whole event."

Mr Irving was arrested in 2005 by Austrian police for glorifying and identifying with the Nazis, and denying the Holocaust in a speech he made in Austria in 1989. He admitted the crime of holocaust denial and was imprisoned from February to December 2006, but released after an appeal.

Mr Griffin became the leader of the BNP in 1999.

Campaigners will be at Oxford's Town Hall, in St Aldate's, tonight, calling on the Oxford Union to retract the invitations. Unite Against Fascism has organised the rally in conjunction with Oxford University Students' Union.

Martin McCluskey, president of Oxford University Students' Union, said: "First and foremost, Oxford University Students' Union has been concerned about the safety of students and local residents of Oxford.

"We have made it clear we support freedom of speech and any genuine debate on it. Where the BNP and Holocaust deniers go, violence follows."

However, Raghib Ali, one of the founders of the Oxford Islam and Muslim Awareness Project, said there were dangers in depriving the two men of a platform.

Dr Ali, who is attending the rally tonight, said: "The views these men hold are dangerous and lead to further prejudice. But by not giving them a platform you push them underground and make them more dangerous."

Various speakers who were due to take part in debates at the Union are boycotting speaking engagements. These include television presenter June Sarpong, Labour MP Austin Mitchell and the Defence Secretary, Des Browne.

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Dolores, London says...
7:44am Tue 20 Nov 07

I doubt whether David Irving will turn up even if it goes ahead. He claims to have a speaking engagement in Liverpool on Monday. In any case he is getting very forgetful in his old age, denying things he said in the past that are well documented. For example see http://lancasteruaf.
blogspot.com/2007/11
/poor-old-david-irvi
ng-response-to-lies.
html.

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John Doe, Oxford says...
9:00am Tue 20 Nov 07

So this is organised by students from Oxford University, this great bastion of free speech that forbids students from talking to animal rights protesters. Two students have told me that they were hauled in to receive severe warnings after they had been seen to show sympathies with the A/R group protesting against the lab being built on South Park Road.
Oxford University-champions of free speech, don't believe it.
As for Nick Griffin, let him speak, he will show himself to be the bigot he is. To deny him the right to speak will make a martyr of him.

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alan page, says...
9:14am Tue 20 Nov 07

This is a big fuss over nothing. I suppose it gives the Student Union something to do and lots of publicity to the BNP and David Irving's research, but aside from that it acheives nothing.

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Don Baker, Banbury says...
9:26am Tue 20 Nov 07

I had a walk down South Parks one Thursday a few weeks back. Although I have no particular views on vivisection, I was keen to see what all the fuss was about.
From my stopping to speak to them, to my leaving the pen they have to stand in. I was constantly filmed and photographed by three police officers. More sinister was the fact that I was also filmed by members of a private security firm whom I was told, worked for the university. I had my camera with me and took some photographs of the protesters. I was warned by the police that I may be arrested if my photographs included any of the security operatives who had been busy filming me.
To those people who are shocked to see what is going on in Burma. I would urge them, have a walk as I did down South Parks Road any Thursday afternoon.
Free speech at Oxford University, forget it.

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alan page, says...
9:35am Tue 20 Nov 07

Well if you were to be faced with intimidation by a load of mindless bunnyhuggers who have in the past firebombed labs and seem to have compunction attacking individuals at home or digging up the graves of the deadu would be pretty keen to do what you could security wise as well.
There was a debate held on the issue, however, and the protestors showed themselves up as the shallow, irrational idiots they are.
The same will happen with Griffen and co. which is why attempts to stop the debate are
misguided at best and stupid and bigoted at worst.

Report this post »

alan page, says...
9:44am Tue 20 Nov 07

Erratum:
Should read "have NO compunction"
For "mindless bunnyhuggers" substitute "Clinically
deranged psychopathic bunnyhugging freaks".

Report this post »

Petra, Oxford says...
9:45am Tue 20 Nov 07

The Oxford Union should show some backbone and not be intimidated by threats of violence from left wing thugs. Regardless of invited speakers views, they have every righ to express them and the Union and its members every right to listen. To have a debate on "Freedom of Speech" cancelled through threat of violence and intimidation is not just ironic but a disgrace to Oxford. As for Labour MPs supporting such intimidation and threats, it does not surprise me in the least - that's the sort of party the Labour Party is these days. When is someone going to stand up to Labour and its Marxist bullyboys?

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Mary Magee, says...
9:52am Tue 20 Nov 07

There aint no need for wot them vivisecters do. If they ever laid a finger on my little Muffin I would be very cross.

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T. Lambert, says...
10:06am Tue 20 Nov 07

Mr Page, in your posting you make wild accusations. I would appreciate if you would you confirm you are referring to the protesters who visit the South Park Road each Thursday. Fully obeying the injunction as laid down by Judge Holland.

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Don, says...
10:21am Tue 20 Nov 07

alan page wrote:
Erratum: Should read \"have NO compunction\" For \"mindless bunnyhuggers\" substitute \"Clinically deranged psychopathic bunnyhugging freaks\".
Alan, Please stop looking in the mirror and talking to you self. I am sure regular contributors to these postings will have their own idea as to who the "clinically
deranged psychopath" is. Out of curiosity, what bad experience have you suffered that has left you such a bitter & twisted person.

Report this post »

Tarbatt, says...
10:27am Tue 20 Nov 07

It is difficult to know whether to treat Alan Page's posts with contempt or sympathy, because possibly he really is mentally ill. His anger with the world could be symptomatic of illness. So why don't you tell us Alan, are you currently being treated for a mental condition?

Report this post »

alan page, says...
10:48am Tue 20 Nov 07

Yaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnn

!!
Perhaps you should ask those who work for Huntingdon life sciences for their views on the matter?
Of course, unless you are all vegetarians, your protesets amount to **** all anyway.
Of course I do have to be careful what I say, wouldn't want one of you creeps to firebomb my house now would I?
Peter Singer (your philosopher) supports the right to abort the foetuses of disabled children, the right to natural life doesn't extend that far with him really does it?
Anyway you keep shaking your self righteous little placards and I will keep laughing at you.
Fair deal?

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proud to be British, manchester says...
10:52am Tue 20 Nov 07

It's so funny - the famous Oxford University unable to dare debate with people who tell the truth! Health and safety grounds my foot - lefty scum deliberately incite violnce in order to avoid a debate, don't blame the messenger. The BNP should be congratulated for exposing this (mostly) hidden poison festering at the heart of institutions like Oxford university - the problem is, the great British public are,for the most part, too stupid to notice! What the Hey!!

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Mary Magee, says...
10:52am Tue 20 Nov 07

That Alan reminds me of me late usband (Gawd rest is soul)He used to do things wot was "unnatural". I admit to being a bit broad minded, but I saiz to im, I saiz "you needn't think I'm doing them sorts of fings, I ain't one of them scarlet women". I opes this is a lesson to you Alan. Me prosthetics ave been known to come true.

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T. Lambert, says...
11:02am Tue 20 Nov 07

Dear Mr Page, Further to my previous posting. When you mention the digging up of graves and firebombings, are you referring to the protester who attend Thursday afternoon demonstrations on South Park Road?
I appreciate your co-operation and look forward to your reply.
Thank you.

Report this post »

John Doe, says...
11:07am Tue 20 Nov 07

Oops Alan, sounds like you have bitten off more than you can chew this time. Bags a front seat in the libel court.

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T. Lambert, says...
11:23am Tue 20 Nov 07

T. Lambert wrote:
Dear Mr Page, Further to my previous posting. When you mention the digging up of graves and firebombings, are you referring to the protester who attend Thursday afternoon demonstrations on South Park Road? I appreciate your co-operation and look forward to your reply. Thank you.
My apologies Mr Page. In my sentence where I say " are you referring to the protester who attend Thursday afternoon demonstrations on South Park Road?" I should have used the plural. I had meant to say protesters.
Looking forward to your reply.

Report this post »

alan page, says...
11:53am Tue 20 Nov 07

T. Lambert wrote:
Dear Mr Page, Further to my previous posting. When you mention the digging up of graves and firebombings, are you referring to the protester who attend Thursday afternoon demonstrations on South Park Road? I appreciate your co-operation and look forward to your reply. Thank you.
Oh, I think it is public knowledge that at least one co-founder of Speak has served prison time for setting off incendiary devices previously.
Now you tell me, if you and the other bunnyhuggers are so, so innocent of all wrongdoing why was the injunction put in place in the first instance? What about the boat houses that got torched? Do you believe that the university has no right to defend itself against that kind of mentality and those who refuse to condemn it?

It is intersting to note, by the way that only you are prepared to use your real name here.

It shows that either the rest don't have the courage or that they are ashamed to be publicly exposed for the hysterical bigots they are. I would have thought they would have been proud to support such a cause. Ho Ho!!

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Major A Gusset (retired), says...
11:55am Tue 20 Nov 07

Animal experiments, a complete waste of time. When I'm a bit green round the gills I visit the doctors, not the vets.
Vivisection is a relict of the dark ages. Jolly well should be made illegal as with bare-baiting, dogfighting and ****-fighting.
A horse whipping for the cruel bounders would teach them a dash lesson.
Toodlepip

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T. Lambert, says...
12:01pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Dear Mr Page, I would confirm to you. I do not post as an animal rights person. Thank you for your partial but prompt reply.

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Chris Brand, Edinburgh says...
12:17pm Tue 20 Nov 07

In the eighteenth century, top British philosopher David Hume could not get a job in any Scottish university because he was rumoured to be an atheist. Ten years ago, I was fired by Edinburgh University for too much free speech about race, intelligence, feminazism and paedohysteria. This year, Nobelist James Watson was sent to the doghouse for his own scientific racism. This week, even such victims of anti-free-speech hysteria as Nick Griffin and David Irving face being disinvited from even discussing free speech itself at the Oxford Union. As British leftists take the country back to the days of the Inquisition, one just wonders whether they ponder the determination of Queen Elizabeth I 'not to make windows into men's souls.' The Martyrs' Memorial, just a minute away from the Union in central Oxford, should daily remind them.

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Carlos, says...
12:46pm Tue 20 Nov 07

So much for the Nazi BNP. On November the 11th a nazi party had called a demonstration against inmigrants in a working class area of Madrid, a neighbourhood where workers from many parts of the world live. This racist provocation had been authorised by the government. To protest against this, many antifascists gathered to defend the area. While on his way there, a young man called Carlos was stabbed in the heart by a nazi with a hunting knife. He blead to death on an underground platform. He was sixteen. Another friend of his, Alex, was also stabbed and is recovering in hospital from a chest wound.
Only in the last week there were up to five fascist and nazi demos in Madrid, four of which had been authorised by the governement. The antifascist platform had called for one on the 24th which has been banned. Please beware of this hatemonger, Nick Griffin.

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alan page, says...
2:34pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Carlos wrote:
So much for the Nazi BNP. On November the 11th a nazi party had called a demonstration against inmigrants in a working class area of Madrid, a neighbourhood where workers from many parts of the world live. This racist provocation had been authorised by the government. To protest against this, many antifascists gathered to defend the area. While on his way there, a young man called Carlos was stabbed in the heart by a nazi with a hunting knife. He blead to death on an underground platform. He was sixteen. Another friend of his, Alex, was also stabbed and is recovering in hospital from a chest wound. Only in the last week there were up to five fascist and nazi demos in Madrid, four of which had been authorised by the governement. The antifascist platform had called for one on the 24th which has been banned. Please beware of this hatemonger, Nick Griffin.
Yes, but rascist scum like that do not need people like Griffin to lead them on. They are working to their own brains.
Banning Griffin et al will acheive nothing. Far better let the creep speak, otherwise you are no better than they are.

Report this post »

alan page, says...
3:53pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Chris Brand wrote:
In the eighteenth century, top British philosopher David Hume could not get a job in any Scottish university because he was rumoured to be an atheist. Ten years ago, I was fired by Edinburgh University for too much free speech about race, intelligence, feminazism and paedohysteria. This year, Nobelist James Watson was sent to the doghouse for his own scientific racism. This week, even such victims of anti-free-speech hysteria as Nick Griffin and David Irving face being disinvited from even discussing free speech itself at the Oxford Union. As British leftists take the country back to the days of the Inquisition, one just wonders whether they ponder the determination of Queen Elizabeth I 'not to make windows into men's souls.' The Martyrs' Memorial, just a minute away from the Union in central Oxford, should daily remind them.
I don't think you need to go that far back. There was a major row over the possibility of a celibate homosexual being made a bishop a couple of years back.

I have just googled your name to look into your case. I understand that you publicly defended a fellow academic who had been caught having sex with a minor by saying something along the lines of "I don't see why a case like this should reach the courts, x was intelligent enough in his dealings with the child and didn't cause him any harm".
Now whilst I would question this assertion I would certainly have not called it a sackable offence.
I tried to read a copy of your "G-factor" as well but it was a little too specialist for me to get much out of.
I think the basic principle here should be the Voltairean one,"I hate and despise everything you say and stand for but you have the right to say it."
I suppose Universities have their own reputations to think of. I recall having my wrist slapped for a letter of mine appearing in a local paper in Birmingham where I had used the Uni I was studying at as an address. Something about reflecting the views of the university.
But then Schopenhauer believed Universities (at least as far as philosophy went) were a waste of time anyway so you are probably best out of them.

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alan page, says...
3:58pm Tue 20 Nov 07

T. Lambert wrote:
Dear Mr Page, I would confirm to you. I do not post as an animal rights person. Thank you for your partial but prompt reply.
It was considerably fuller than the response you gave to mine!!

Report this post »

Major A Gusset (retired), says...
6:07pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Alan, Hope you will be a good chap and help me out. Witherington Heights is a cold and draughty place at the best of times, now the dash heating has gone off altogether. Will you be a good chap and pop over? We could do with some of the hot air you seem to have such an ample supply of.
Toodlepip
P.S. As you drive up the lane to the house and you come to the ford, you will see a sign saying "danger, river in flood. On no account must any vehicle attempt to cross the ford as it will be washed away by the raging torrent) Just ignore the sign, I'm sure its not as bad as they say!

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Fingers the felon, Scrubs says...
6:20pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Be careful crossing the ford Alan, or as Luigi the Luger used to say "you'll be a sleeping with the fishes"

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Mary Magee, says...
6:27pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Strange ow you should mention sleeping with fishes Major Sir. Me late usband (Gawd bless is sole} He tried sleeping with the fishes, good job I thinks when the RSPCA took im away. Some of is abbits wernt Godly.

Report this post »

Major A Gusset (retired), says...
6:32pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Mary, please do not confuse me with Fingers the felon or I will set the dogs on you again.

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Mary Magee, says...
6:55pm Tue 20 Nov 07

You should lern to speek to a lady proper Major, or Mrs Gusset might just find out wot appened in the potting shed when you took advantage of me. And when your father, the Colonel fell in the swollen river at the ford, and you inherited the estate. What if some certain men in blue uniforms found it wasnt no accident.

Report this post »

Major A Gusset, says...
6:59pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Mary, Please meet me by the ford at the swollen and dangerous river at midnight. Make sure you don't tell any one where you are going.

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Don, Banbury says...
7:06pm Tue 20 Nov 07

These posting seem to have gone off track somewhat, but its better than having to put up with Alan Page venting his vitriolic spleen.

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alan page, says...
7:07pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Major A Gusset (retired) wrote:
Alan, Hope you will be a good chap and help me out. Witherington Heights is a cold and draughty place at the best of times, now the dash heating has gone off altogether. Will you be a good chap and pop over? We could do with some of the hot air you seem to have such an ample supply of. Toodlepip P.S. As you drive up the lane to the house and you come to the ford, you will see a sign saying "danger, river in flood. On no account must any vehicle attempt to cross the ford as it will be washed away by the raging torrent) Just ignore the sign, I'm sure its not as bad as they say!
Sorry, I'm afraid your "If it moves ban it, shoot it, kill it" policy and I are not going to get on.
I think you may find a footpump does rather nicely especially when it comes to inflating brains.
You can borrow mine if you want.
Old boy, toodle pip,etc.etc. etc. yaaaaaawwwwwwnnnn
Christ, Private Eye have doing Gussett since the 1960's, do you really have no originality at all?

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alan page, says...
7:10pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Don wrote:
These posting seem to have gone off track somewhat, but its better than having to put up with Alan Page venting his vitriolic spleen.
So why are not simply ignoring them then?
I think you may find that may help you keep your complacency on track a little!!

Report this post »

Don, says...
7:13pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Oh my God. I spoke too soon. I'm off out to the pub. Will be back when Alan's gone to bed.

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alan page, says...
7:18pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Anybody in Banbury fancy a pint? Go and sit next to Don and light a fag. He will
be so happy to see you.
Office workers eh?

Report this post »

Tess, says...
7:26pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Alan, Was it you I attended to in the outpatients yesterday. I am sure you are the gentleman who, in an inebriated state had tripped up and pulled a tendon. Please could you collect your trousers which you must have soiled when you fell over. They are filling the out patients area with a foul smell.

Report this post »

alan page, says...
8:08pm Tue 20 Nov 07

Tess wrote:
Alan, Was it you I attended to in the outpatients yesterday. I am sure you are the gentleman who, in an inebriated state had tripped up and pulled a tendon. Please could you collect your trousers which you must have soiled when you fell over. They are filling the out patients area with a foul smell.
I thought your nose would be too full of Cocaine to notice that.

Anyway, to get this comments section out of the gutter and back online. I hope the Union decides the right thing and that a handful of small minded bigots are not allowed to piddle on democracy.


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Mike Hunt, Nowhere says...
9:29pm Tue 20 Nov 07

F*ck me, this Alan Page does talk some complete bullsh*t.
Still, being a benefit scrounging, workshy waste of a life I suppose he has to find some way of passing the time.
Now let's see what predictable and immature reply he comes up with to this; as if I give a toss (gives me something to laugh at anyway!)

Report this post »

alan page, says...
12:01am Wed 21 Nov 07

Mike Hunt wrote:
F*ck me, this Alan Page does talk some complete bullsh*t. Still, being a benefit scrounging, workshy waste of a life I suppose he has to find some way of passing the time. Now let\'s see what predictable and immature reply he comes up with to this; as if I give a toss (gives me something to laugh at anyway!)
Have this one on me!!

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Balder, Denmark says...
6:24pm Wed 21 Nov 07

I am absolutely disgusted by all the hate directed at Mr. Nick Griffin, and Mr. David Irving. The attempts to keep them from speaking spell their own sinister message. The haters are afraid that the two gentlemen in question will not confirm to their defaming propaganda, and will have success creeping up from under the dung that has been thrown at them, and will show them selves as sensible intelligent normal people. Can't risk that! Protecting the people from the truth so to speak, even if it is with lies, distortion, threats and violence and without their consent. Big Brothers many small useful foot soldiers. Cowards with the heads, minds and attitudes of the brown shirts of the late thirties in Germany. These were the kinds of people who forced Jews to clean the streets with tooth brushes, just because they could, and because they knew nobody would come to their aid.

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Marisa, California says...
3:42am Thu 22 Nov 07

David Irving is a British jewel. It would be a shame if you kowtowed to the wishes of a few fanatics who want to silence Mr. Irving for a reason: they are afraid of the truth. I strongly urge you to do the right thing and go on with the scheduled speakers Irving and Griffin.

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Lex, ChillyJockoLand says...
5:33am Thu 22 Nov 07

Is it university or punyversity - up to you lot really I suppose?

PS Marisa's not wrong...

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Eric, Seattle, wa says...
7:03am Thu 22 Nov 07

What on God's good earth is wrong with letting a controversial historian, and a fringe politician, speak at a University?

What is a University for , anyway?


Report this post »

Mal, Carterton says...
9:30am Thu 22 Nov 07

Some of these comments are just ridiculous. Get back to the Issue. The right to free speech. Extremist groups all over this country spread their word, that's democracy, so don't stop the BNP.

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Alan Heath, Warsaw says...
10:54am Thu 22 Nov 07

What I find really amazing about this article is the advert for Samsung half way down.
I am in Poland and the advert is coming out in Polish. Had I been in Spain no doubt in Spanish, or Japan in Japanese etc etc.
Now isn't that amazing?

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Chris Brand, Edinburgh says...
12:11pm Thu 22 Nov 07

One's heart goes out to O.U. President Luke Tryl, faced as he is by hysterical leftists (whose political forebears actually did nothing to oppose Hitler c. 1933-41) and doubtless by spineless modern Oxford 'academics' (who have done precisely nothing to contribute to debate about race, intelligence and the problems of sub-Saharan Africa over the past generation). Luke's position is even more precarious since the recent withdrawal of the 'scholars' of London, Bristol and Edinburgh from hearing the race realism of Nobelist James Watson. Luke is a brave man and it is lucky for today's shamelessly ignoracist and Enoch-denying Not-the-Conservative


-Party that he has got his eye on leadership -- hopefully taking the party towards the national liberalism of Palmerston and Lloyd George, including free speech for Englishmen. One hopes the gals of Oxford will make it all worthwhile in time-honoured fashion for their fine President-with-Balls


.

PS to Alan Page: Sorry 'The g Factor' is a bit rebarbative. Just enjoy Hans Eyenck's 'The Inequality of Man,' to which TgF is merely an updated academic footnote.

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Joseph Garrick, Scotland says...
5:29pm Thu 22 Nov 07

Why is it that only individuals and organisations whose opinions meet with the approval of the Jewish, Islamic and the so called ethnic minority community allowed to speak at an institution such as Oxford?????

Joseph

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L Hale, says...
5:11pm Fri 23 Nov 07

Alan Page is a knob.

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Thomas, Oxford says...
12:13am Sat 24 Nov 07

It's because the snobs at the University think they're a cut above and are weak, left-wing idiots who are contributing to the downfall of this, until recently, great and proud nation. Good luck Griffin!

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