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Cyclist ignore red lights despite tragedy

8:00am Monday 30th April 2007

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Concern has been raised over the number of cyclists ignoring red traffic lights at the busy city centre junction where a student died 12 days ago.

The Oxford Mail counted 23 cyclists pedalling through red lights in just 20 minutes on Saturday at the crossroads where Parks Road, Broad Street, Holywell Street and Catte Street meet.

Worcester College student Tsz Fok died after he was involved in a collision with a recycling lorry at the junction on Wednesday, April 18. There is no suggestion the 22-year-old had jumped a red light himself.

But Neil Sumner, 53, a gardener at Rhodes House in nearby South Parks Road, says cyclists are still ignoring red lights at the junction despite Mr Fok's death.

Mr Sumner said: "It's got to be stopped - it's just so irresponsible. There are still flowers lying on the side of the road in tribute to that poor lad and people keep on whizzing through the red lights. They just need to take more care.

"I've worked at Rhodes House for nearly six years and I keep seeing cyclist after cyclist going through the red lights.

"After that young lad died the other week, I decided that something needed to be done. Most of them look as though they are students. They're supposed to be the brains of Britain, but they don't even have the sense to stop at a red light."

Oxfordshire County Council plans to review all aspects of control, signs and road markings at the junction following Mr Fok's death, as standard procedure following any fatal accident.

However, it said that cracking down on cyclists ignoring red lights was the responsibility of Thames Valley Police.

Simon Banks, of city cycling group Cyclox, has also urged cyclists to make sure they stop at junctions where drivers can see them.

The Highway Code stresses cyclists must not cross the stop line when traffic lights on roads they are using are on red.

It warns cyclists can face fines of up to £2,500 for dangerous cycling, £1,000 for careless cycling and £500 for riding on the pavement, if they are convicted of an offence Mr Sumner said: "I went to the police and told them about what I had seen.

"I just want something done about this before anyone gets killed."

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Frank, says...
1:44am Mon 30 Apr 07

Agree with Chris' concern but the fact remains that Mr Fok was NOT cycling through a red light and got sadly killed anyway, so the real dangers in this case as in previous ones seem to lie elsewhere.
Maybe we should rather focus on the these to make sure this doesn't happen again?

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Kit, Oxford says...
4:43am Mon 30 Apr 07

Frank, the tragic accident with Mr. Fok seems to be a combination of the vunerabilty of cyclists and the blind spots that are an inherent risk on HGVs and vans. That said, I think we have all seen near misses at that junction where cyclists jump red lights. As far as I am concerned this is not a pro vs anti-cycling issue - enforcing the law protects cyclists and will prevent more deaths, and so it is beneficial for everyone. Teaching cyclists to cycle assertively but not aggresively and to use bright lights at night will help further.

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Amanda, Oxford says...
7:20am Mon 30 Apr 07

Just about every day I see a near miss at this junction involving pedestrians. It is ridiculous that pedestrians just have to look and hope that the lights don't change and a car comes 'round the corner. And the pedestrians who don't look at all don't make it any better. With all the continental tourists here it's an accident waiting to happen.

This junction needs both cycle boxes and some help to pedestrians wishing to cross to be safer.

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Rachael, OX3 says...
7:53am Mon 30 Apr 07

I wish they'd stop riding on the pavements too. Idiots.

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Derek, Cowley says...
8:06am Mon 30 Apr 07

Not just junctions but pedestrian/Zebra crossings as well. I was crossing the road the other day outside Tesco on the Cowley Road and was missed by fractions of an inch by an ignorant cyclist who had just wizzed through the red light, even though he could not see if anyone was crossing due to the bus stopped at the red light.

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steve redford, Botley says...
8:44am Mon 30 Apr 07

I totally agree with the need for cyclists to follow the highway code more closely. The average driver familar with Oxford expects to need eye's in the back of their head and telepathy. But the visitor can easly miss the cyclist passing by on the wrong side and pulling out with no signals.

I thought it was irrisponsible for BBC Radio 4 to comment over the weekend that the cyclists who jump red lights are less likley to be injured!

By the way I am a cylist and diligently follow the road rules. I get frustrated by others passing me while I'm waiting.

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Rebecca, Oxford says...
10:07am Mon 30 Apr 07

I don't know if the BBC4 comment was the same that I heard, but I thought it was quite interesting - that apparently more women cyclists get killed because they don't tend to jump red lights, whereas men tend to (i am not saying all do!). Then when the lights turn green, the cyclist who didn't jump the lights gets knocked off by a lorry turning left who has completely not seen the cyclist on their inside.

I agree that cyclists should not jump lights. I am a cyclist and a driver, and I think all drivers should try cycling for a day to see what it's like.

Yes some cyclists are so stupid and completely ignorant of road rules (do they not realise how vulnerable they are as they talk on their phones completely ignoring traffic that could easily kill them? The road require full attention and both hands on your brakes!), but many drivers have no idea how to treat law abiding cylists, cutting them up turning left when they should wait the 10 extra seconds and let the cyclist go first, and over-taking when there isn't enough room, to name a couple of things.

If drivers knew what it was like to be a cyclist, I am sure they would be far more considerate.

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Phil Gale, Oxford says...
10:28am Mon 30 Apr 07

That particular junction is overdue for a redesign to reflect its current traffic patterns.

That didn't stop me shouting at a cyclist who went through the red light as I walked past this morning ... Perhaps I'm becoming a grumpy old man.

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Mark Dyson, Oxford says...
12:47pm Mon 30 Apr 07

Cyclists have, for too long, been given too much leeway when it comes to the law. If drivers jumped the lights (or sailed through them as a lot of cyclists do) when they knock down pedestrians and drive away, they are, rightly, punished. Points on licences and hefty fines. Cyclists are clearly breaking the law and putting peoples lives and their own at risk, yet the police do little or nothing about them.
There is a certain degree of 'I don't pollute the atmosphere so I'm immune to the law' about theses cyclists. They don't wear helmets, they listen to their ipods, don't indicate when turning. All of which would see the average motorist slapped with a fine and points that raised their insurance premiums. Cyclists don't even have to have insurance or register that they have a vehicle or keep its brakes and tyres in a safe condition.
It may be an over-reaction but I thinks it's about time that cyclists were made to follow stricter rules and handed stronger punishments.

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Paul, Oxford says...
1:21pm Mon 30 Apr 07

Let's try to avoid gross generalisations. Not all cyclists break the law. By the same token, some motorists understand the purpose of indicators, and many bus drivers are kind and considerate road users. The drivers who believe that they need 'eyes in the back of their head' should consider the many mirrors that are installed in modern cars for just that purpose. That said, we all know the solution to these problems: flood the streets and make Oxford the Venice of the Thames Valley.

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Andrew C., Temple Cowley says...
1:21pm Mon 30 Apr 07

A lot of what Mark Dyson says is true, save that helmets are not mandatory (and IMO shouldn't be: they really don't do what many people think), and we're required in law to make sure the machine is in roadworthy condition. The rules are quite strict enough, thanks; but we certainly could do with better enforcement of the laws we do have.

And yes, the holier-than-thou attitude you see from some cyclists is just as bad and incorrect as the I-paid-to-use-this-road attitude we get from some motorists.

Agree thoroughly with Kit. The trick will be getting the training/road sense message out through persuasion as well as through enforcement.

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jdn, cowley says...
1:36pm Mon 30 Apr 07

Firstly, congrats to most everyone on having a reasonable debate rather than ranting.

Rebecca, I completely agree with you. Drivers should try cycling for a bit, to appreciate the dangers a cyclist faces on an almost daily basis. I also believe that cyclists should have to drive up and down Cowley Road a few times to appreciate just how difficult that can be with some of the cyclists' behaviour.

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sam, cowley says...
1:55pm Mon 30 Apr 07

jdn wrote:
Firstly, congrats to most everyone on having a reasonable debate rather than ranting. Rebecca, I completely agree with you. Drivers should try cycling for a bit, to appreciate the dangers a cyclist faces on an almost daily basis. I also believe that cyclists should have to drive up and down Cowley Road a few times to appreciate just how difficult that can be with some of the cyclists\' behaviour.
jdn, how about cyclists Drive for a day so they can appreciate what idiots they behave like on the roads?

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jdn, cowley says...
2:41pm Mon 30 Apr 07

@Sam

That's kinda cute. I'm guessing you're new at this. (Just as a pointer, most people read the post they're replying to before replying.) Thanks for making me chuckle though.

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dave, says...
2:56pm Mon 30 Apr 07

sam wrote:
jdn wrote: Firstly, congrats to most everyone on having a reasonable debate rather than ranting. Rebecca, I completely agree with you. Drivers should try cycling for a bit, to appreciate the dangers a cyclist faces on an almost daily basis. I also believe that cyclists should have to drive up and down Cowley Road a few times to appreciate just how difficult that can be with some of the cyclists\\\\\\\' behaviour.
jdn, how about cyclists Drive for a day so they can appreciate what idiots they behave like on the roads?
Likewise the same with bus and car drivers.

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Sid Hunt, says...
2:56pm Mon 30 Apr 07

Just about every day I see a near miss at this junction involving pedestrians. It is ridiculous that pedestrians just have to look and hope that the lights don't change and a car comes 'round the corner. And the pedestrians who don't look at all don't make it any better. With all the continental tourists here it's an accident waiting to happen.

This junction needs both cycle boxes and some help to pedestrians wishing to cross to be safer.


Do these comments relate to the same junction as discussed? There are already advanced red light stopping areas for cyclists at this junction. I'm not sure where the blind corners are as the whole junction is very open. Personally, I do not transgress red stop lights whether travelling by cycle, car or motorcycle. I also do not position myself in what are very obvious vehicular blind spots - this I consider taking responsibility for my own and others' safety.

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Mike, Headington says...
4:21pm Mon 30 Apr 07

As a pedestrian - won't drive, and not sure I want to cycle either- I have particular issues. A core issue for the County is that these lights are placed in an absolutely prime tourist route - even without the rest of us wandering about - and they need a filter so pedestrians can cross.

It would then be handy if in that 10-20 second gap the cycles could pause to let us cross...

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Liz Irvine, Oxford says...
4:47pm Mon 30 Apr 07

The other dangerous area is Donnington Bridge where cyclists do not appreciate the flow system for cars. This means they ride across the junctions just as traffic is setting off. There have been several near misses that Ive seen at this busy junction due to this silly behaviour.
I am a keen cyclist myself in Oxford, but it seems that not everyone appreciates the rules are there to protect us all, mainly from ourselves.

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Frankly, Oxford says...
5:26pm Mon 30 Apr 07

I am a cyclist, and I cycle to work everyday down the Banbury Road. I do obey the highway code and always stop at red lights, and never cut onto the pavement to get ahead of the queue. I note that fines can be imposed on any cyclist that breaks the law; however, I never see the police enforcing this law. I was at the Marston Ferry Junction, and a police car was at the lights. A cyclist came from behind me, went onto the pavement, around the light (as if that means they haven't gone through a red light) then he thought he could gradually just pass the junction without being smacked by a driver. The copper just watched obliviously. I pointed at them, and he looked the other way.

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Liz, Oxford says...
6:54pm Mon 30 Apr 07

I have had numerous narrow misses when cyclists have gone through red lights either on a pedestrian crossing or at an intersection. It is about time they were fined.

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Liz, Oxford says...
7:00pm Mon 30 Apr 07

Rachael wrote:
I wish they'd stop riding on the pavements too. Idiots.
Heaven help a cyclist riding on a pavement and they knock me down. They sure will know who I am.

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paul, oxford says...
7:16pm Mon 30 Apr 07

DO CYCLISTS EVER STOP AT RED LIGHTS.
If police fined them they would get more money than speed cameras

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C, says...
8:36pm Mon 30 Apr 07

I wish they'd do something about this immunity from following the Highway Code that cyclists' "green credentials" supposedly gives them. Speaking as someone who's predominantly a pedestrian, cyclists are far and away the biggest hazard to my safety, far moreso than the other frequently derided (and rightly so) road nuisances such as the white vans, minicabs and so on. However, there seems to be as much unwillingness to voluntarily take responsibility as there is to enforce it, so I won't hold my breath waiting for things to improve.

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Robert Warner, Henley-on-Thames says...
10:12pm Mon 30 Apr 07

As a motorist, I think many cyclists are complete idiots and so are some pedestrians. As a cyclist, I think some motorists are idiots and so are a quite few pedestrians. And as a pedestrian, I think some motorists and a few cyclists are complete morons! Over 30 years in and around Oxford, I have been hit by cyclists 6 times whilst I have been stationary in my car so I think, on balance, I have hard -and expensive - evidence that quite a few cyclists in Oxford really do put themselves in danger through thoughtless or reckless riding and bad road positioning. When on my bike, I would NEVER EVER wait beside another vehicle and I always position myself in a gap so the driver behind me can see me clearly when I - and they - set off.

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William, Kennington says...
11:13pm Mon 30 Apr 07

I think that the way to improve matters is for the Courts to begin to apply the concept of contributory negiligence to road users whose behaviour has contributed to their injuries. There is an unfortunate view that the driver is responsible because they have insurance to pay compensation and therefore it hurts no-one when some judge awards compensation against an injured pedestrian or cyclist. We have a responsibility to look after our own safety and not automatically rely on someone else - other road users or the council for signs to tell us what to do.

Pedal cyclists are in control of the only mechanically propelled method of road transport where you do not need a licence, mandatory testing to or insurance to hit the roads.

I will admit a bias in that I have witnessesed three people being killed in road accidents in my life. Two of them were killed by pedal cyclists who rode at speed aong the pavement. The third was killed by a motorcyclist who jumped a red light. The deaths were described as "sad accidents" and the cases closed.

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Polly, Abingdon says...
11:26pm Mon 30 Apr 07

sam wrote:
jdn wrote: Firstly, congrats to most everyone on having a reasonable debate rather than ranting. Rebecca, I completely agree with you. Drivers should try cycling for a bit, to appreciate the dangers a cyclist faces on an almost daily basis. I also believe that cyclists should have to drive up and down Cowley Road a few times to appreciate just how difficult that can be with some of the cyclists\\\' behaviour.
jdn, how about cyclists Drive for a day so they can appreciate what idiots they behave like on the roads?
I'm a cyclist and I don't have a Driving Licence-there is a whole new can of worms opened, if I took to the road in a car for the day!

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Polly, Abingdon says...
11:31pm Mon 30 Apr 07

Liz wrote:
Rachael wrote: I wish they'd stop riding on the pavements too. Idiots.
Heaven help a cyclist riding on a pavement and they knock me down. They sure will know who I am.
Oh we're so scared!!

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Pedaller, says...
7:27am Tue 1 May 07

Pedestrians are regularly hit or nearly hit by cyclists at the Holywell/Broad Street junction, as there is no pedestrian phase on those traffic lights. The cyclists seem to think that they have supreme rights at this junction (regardless of the colour of the lights), and pedestrians have to take their chance. (I am a keen cyclist myself, but I am distressed at the extent to which amateur and immature student cyclists let us down.)

The recent tragic accident did not actually take place at the junction, but just to the north of it: that is a different issue.

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