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Row over fully-dressed woman in sauna
8:25am Tuesday 13th March 2007
Comments (144) Have your say »
A health club has been criticised for allowing a Muslim woman to go for a swim and sauna while wearing traditional head dress and robe.
The woman was admitted to David Lloyd Leisure, in Garsington Road, Cowley, on Sunday in contravention of the company's own rules on dress.
The decision has been condemned by club member Ian Caldwell, who was in the sauna when the woman walked in and by Muslim community leader Taj Hargey, who said it was "political correctness gone crazy."
Mr Caldwell said: "The woman walked in wearing her head dress and robe down to the floor and I said 'do you think it's appropriate to wear all that gear in the sauna'.
"There were other women in there who felt threatened because they were wearing swimsuits while she was fully dressed.
"She then left and got into the swimming pool. I asked the manager why she was allowed to break the rules and he said they had to observe her religious customs.
"They've got a dress code but they are effectively making exemptions for religious dress. I don't think they should put religious custom over and above health and hygiene. It is customary in this country to wear swim gear in the swimming pool."
Liam Macgilp, general manager at David Lloyd Oxford, said: "Whereas we respect the religious beliefs and customs of all members, the health, hygiene and safety of members is always the first priority.
"The rules are that all members in the sauna or the wet areas of the club should wear swimwear that is less voluminous for the health, safety and hygiene of all its staff and members."
He would not comment on the incident on Sunday which he said he did not witness but said he understood Mr Caldwell's description of the sequence of events to be correct.
Mr Hargey, chairman of muslim group MECO, said: "If this woman wants to wear this garb it's not Islamic custom, it's a cultural tradition which has nothing to do with faith.
"This is political correctness gone crazy and there should be one set of rules and regulations for everyone, regardless of their culture or religion.
"Perhaps she should consider wearing a new Islamic swimsuit that has been designed called the Burqini which covers all the necessary parts.
"That would be one way around it if she wants to preserve her modesty."
Muslim community leader Muhammed Khan said: "Muslim women who choose to use a facility do so through their own free will and hence need to uphold both personal safety, relevant Islamic injunctions pertaining to the matter, as well as the health and safety of other users.
"It seems Muslim women are being permitted to wear clothing, not a swimsuit, that is concealing yet non-voluminous. It would be advisable to clarify what types of clothing would be classed as 'less voluminous'."
Swimsuit was worn at club
We thank all those who have posted on this topic. For your information, the following has appeared in the Oxford Mail today (April 23).
We are also making contact with Ms Omar with a view to a follow-up article.
On March 13, we reported claims that a woman went for a sauna and a swim at Oxford's David Lloyd health club wearing traditional clothing of the sort worn by Muslims.
The story was based on an eyewitness account and was critical of both the unidentified woman involved and the health club. The club confirmed the sequence of events was correct.
In fact the woman at the centre of the story, Manal Omar, wore a five-piece swimsuit specifically designed to allow Muslim women to bathe while preserving their modesty.
Although we published our story in good faith, based on what we knew at the time, we are happy to clarify the situation.
Ms Omar has declined to comment further.
Your Say YourOxford Mail
David.John.Bourton., oxford says...
9:55am Tue 13 Mar 07
Adam D, says...
10:02am Tue 13 Mar 07
JK, Oxford says...
10:24am Tue 13 Mar 07
perieskhan, oxford says...
11:14am Tue 13 Mar 07
anon, oxford says...
11:21am Tue 13 Mar 07
Andrew Jackson what do you mean in your comment?? Inciting hatred springs to mind....
Yes, this woman did do something a bit stupid, dangerous and against the rules, but we should be having a go at David Lloyd for letting her, despite it being clearly against the fitness club rules regardless of her religion, and agree that she was a bit stupid as she could choose not to go if she didn't want to wear a swimsuit.
We should not, ever, be calling for 'England to be free from this' if you meant what I have taken you to mean Andrew....
Oldster, says...
12:15pm Tue 13 Mar 07
The British are expected to tolerate the immigrants' customs (some of which are illegal, e.g. they often don't observe the Sex Discrimination Act and force their children's marriages). Yet it is taken for granted that the immigrants do not have to reciprocate this tolerance in any way, either in their own country or here.
(My father was an immigrant, but felt privileged to live here, and would have considered it rude not to observe this country's ways.)
Mr, Town says...
12:20pm Tue 13 Mar 07
K, says...
12:29pm Tue 13 Mar 07
instead of trying to make this country in what they Chose to leave behind! simple thing is respect but these days very few have it any more.
av, oxford says...
12:31pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Amanda, Oxford says...
12:46pm Tue 13 Mar 07
mitchshrader, tasmania says...
12:58pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Pity, that. Gutless, was it? No nerve, giving it back to the abo's, what?
Not surprised, no moral fiber. Be glad when they just give over, it's painful to watch.
The lack of capital punishment, guns, and individual pride has dissolved the British spirit. No lumpy bits left, you can flush now.
Jenny, says...
12:59pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Carlos A, Cowley says...
2:55pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Jenny i am proud to be british, not ashamed of myself at all. We do have one set of rules its just people wont follow them as they dont fit in with thier life style, you never walk into somewhere to see a board with rules for english, rules for asians, rules for europeans etc!
kelbun, Chipping Norton says...
4:19pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Chris, Didcot says...
5:09pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Sienna, Headington,oxford says...
6:39pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Paul, Witney says...
7:00pm Tue 13 Mar 07
If i went to a swimming pool in a country mainly populated by Muslims i would not be allowed to go in there with just my pink speedos on so why should we treat them differently.
The trouble is whenever people like myself get heated over issues like this it gets branded as rascist or being a bigot.
Thats not the case at all. It;s just that surely a multi cultural society (which is supposed to be what we are nowadays) should consist of everyone abiding by the same laws. That my friends is not what some Muslims and people of other faiths abide to.
Also fed up with goody two shoes sticking up for them regardless!
Sienna, headington,oxford says...
7:08pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Free Thinker, oxford says...
7:24pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Paul, Witney says...
8:51pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Sienna - If you ever want any photos sending let me know lol
Phil Rees, Oxon says...
9:13pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Andrew Jackson, Oxford says...
9:38pm Tue 13 Mar 07
kelbun, Chipping Norton says...
10:51pm Tue 13 Mar 07
Andrew Jackson wrote:"Here Here"
Thank you Anon for your comments. I am proud to be English and I feel sad that our English way of life that my grandfather fought so hard to defend is being eroded away piece by piece. All the time people seem to be burying their heads in the sand and allowing our once great country to be taken over by others. I hope you one day will wake up when all our beautiful churches are being demolished and mosques built in their place. Salaam!
Jenny, says...
2:16pm Wed 14 Mar 07
Klaus Boerts, Bocholt, Germany says...
1:08pm Thu 15 Mar 07
terry c, says...
1:25am Mon 19 Mar 07
Jenny wrote:yep, especially the french
I am ashamed to be british. Just look at yourselves and the ridiculous comments you are coming out with. Our own obsession with political correctness has caused this. We are one nation, we should have one set of rules and that would stop this segration. I am proud that our country accepts people from all heritages and I am utterly ashamed at the comments some of you are making. Do you feel the same about the people of french and german origin living in this country?
Ayisha, London says...
5:40pm Mon 19 Mar 07
huh!?, London says...
7:39am Fri 20 Apr 07
Adam D wrote:Um, I don't think naturism is a relgion
Political Correctness gone mad. Either follow the countrys rules, or else theres the door. Religious beliefs my backside. Would they allow a naturist to swim nude??
huh!?, London says...
7:42am Fri 20 Apr 07
As Oxford Mail did not think to get her side of the story, you might want to read it at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2061725,00.html
John, says...
8:14am Fri 20 Apr 07
Diarmuid, Manchester says...
8:21am Fri 20 Apr 07
As for whether or not "we" would be allowed to wear what we like in Muslim countries: I have lived in a Muslim country and can assure you that there a many Europeans wearing clothes that are inappropriate; many Europeans who stock up on alcohol; many Europeans who buy pork products; many Europeans who bu English newspapers; many Europeans who get paid European wages whilst their co-workers earn much less. So quit whining about how people who come to this country should accept "our" values or leave. The English are famed throughout the world for being particularly bad at assimilating to the culture of the country in which they find themselves. Next time you're in the Costa del Sol, you might want to consider that the fat, beered-up prawn shouting next to you might not be truly indicative of Spanish culture.
mike docherty, Glasgow says...
9:18am Fri 20 Apr 07
Charlie, Manchester says...
9:20am Fri 20 Apr 07
Dave Hansell, says...
9:28am Fri 20 Apr 07
It's like a gang of bullies in a school playground who are clearly so inadequate that they have to find some excuse, no matter how far fetched to whinge about. For crying out loud since when did someone wanting to dress modestly whilst participating in leisure activities have anything to do with "British/English" values - whatever they are.
Perhaps if she'd bared her top and done a photo shoot for page 3 of the Sun that would have satisfied the pathetic bullies and cowards like Mr caldwell (whose behavior at this club in humiliating this educated and intelligent woman shames us all), and those who take the same view, that she was displaying the politically correct British/English values they espouse?
What I also find tiresome is people like Mr caldwell & those like him going off half cocked taking it upon themselves to not only define what "proper British/English" values are but to claim by default that they speak for the rest of us with their bigoted bullying attitudes.
A period of reflective silence on their part is probably the best contribution they can bring to this discussion.
steve, Oxford says...
9:51am Fri 20 Apr 07
Perhaps if more modest swimwear were widely available, the people who don't feel comfortable with their bodies might be happier to go swimming, Muslim or otherwise. The whole thing sounds like the 'political correctness gone crazy' lobby has gone crazy themselves here.
Lizzy, London says...
9:54am Fri 20 Apr 07
Read the Guardian story. Oxford Mail - you should be embarrassed to publish something so unbalanced and intrinsically racist.
truthhurts, london says...
9:54am Fri 20 Apr 07
Katie, Oxford says...
10:24am Fri 20 Apr 07
Anonymous Coward, London says...
10:35am Fri 20 Apr 07
Si Brandon, London says...
10:44am Fri 20 Apr 07
This week: Ian Caldwell, a member of David Lloyd Fitness Clubs' Oxford gym, condemns brown people, A-line skirts and the sex discrimination act, and explains why 'string 'em up' is the only language they understand.
Paul, says...
10:58am Fri 20 Apr 07
maggied, Glasgow says...
11:02am Fri 20 Apr 07
Elaine Harrison, Barcelona, Spain says...
11:12am Fri 20 Apr 07
Lily, nonbigotville says...
11:22am Fri 20 Apr 07
Peter, says...
11:30am Fri 20 Apr 07
Are you going to apologise Fran? I think you should.
Kate, Oxford says...
12:01pm Fri 20 Apr 07
I fail to see why what Ms Omar was wearing was any business of anyone else's - it was a swimsuit. People like Ian Caldwell do not have the right to dictate what others wear. The bigoted comments I have read above have made Ms Omar feel unwelcome here and leave a nasty taste in the mouth of Oxford residents such as me.
Mark, Oxford says...
12:15pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Mr Caldwell paints himself as a bigot whose pathetic world views only highlight his own limitations
I am a member of this gym and I am absolutely disgusted with the way this woman has been treated. She is a member who pays her fees just like the rest of us
Yes her swimsuit is appropriate and Yes it is hygenic
I have absolutely no issue with her swimming at the gym and have been greatly saddened to hear that she now does not wish to return to the gy. What a sad sad end to a piece of thoughtless behaviour by Ian Caldwell who should have known better.
Ms Omar if you read this please return to the gym where I am certain you will find Ian Caldwell an isolated figure.
Mr Caldwell if you are reading this I would suggest you be the one to take yourself elsewhere. You are not welcome at Oxford David Lloyd
Dan, oxford says...
12:34pm Fri 20 Apr 07
The way this story has so quickly permeated through stories around the world indicates a depressing thirst for bigotted anti-muslim reporting.
The Oxford Mail should be ashamed of itself for setting this ugly story in motion
and issue a full apology to Ms Omar.
Patrick Sweeney, Canterbury says...
12:39pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Britain is, in my opinion, the greatest example of multiculturalism on the face of the globe, and I am extremely proud of the acceptance that the vast majority of the British public show in the face of the troubled times in which we live.
If Ms. Omar wishes to wear her 'inappropriate' swimwear in a sauna, whose business is it really but hers? Ok, so I personally wouldn't want to wear such garments in there - they make me sweat enough as it is - but to suggest that she should not be allowed to wear a perfectly safe and hygenic garment, simply because of one mans sheer racism and bigotry is appaling.
'Political correctness gone mad' is a phrase that has now been overused to the point that it has lost its meaning.
Rob, London says...
12:43pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Patrick Sweeney, Canterbury says...
12:44pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Charlotte, London says...
12:54pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Racist bigotry, and unreasoned hatred of the unfamiliar, are sadly all too common in the UK. Ms Omar, I sincerely hope that, during your stay here, you will meet more sympathetic and people who are willing to see beyond the 'Muslim label' you seem to have been assigned!
(Oxford Mail = Daily Mail)
James, South England says...
12:56pm Fri 20 Apr 07
You find this offensive? an individual going about there business in their own choice of clothing. No offensive slogans on her clothes. Not barging about swearing at the top of her voice. Not expecting other people to do what she wants. There has been multi cultural immigration to this great country since the 14th century. This is England, we stood alone against the third reich to allow people their personal freedom. As "journalists" you should be ashamed. You haven't approached this lady for her side of the story. This proves that you are a bunch of unprofessional hacks who are running your own bigoted agenda. I'm truely disgusted with those in this nation who can't wait to attack a person because they are different.
Dear Ms Omar
Please don't let this idiot stear any of your decisions. We can't let these people degrade our society. Please, keep on swimming.
Simon O'Neill, Oxford Mail says...
1:02pm Fri 20 Apr 07
We take strong issue with the G2 article about Ms Omar's experiences in several respects, particularly the inaccurate claim that we at the Oxford Mail chose to ignore her version of events.
On the contrary, we were desperate to contact Ms Omar and speak with her, as it would have made for a far more interesting piece. However, we did not know her identity and had no way of finding it out. Unlike some national newspapers, we refuse to use underhand or illegal methods to track people down.
Therefore, the story ran as it was, based on confirmation from the leisure centre and people who were there at the time.
We have no record of Ms Omar contacting us via our website and if she did, we would have that on our system.
We have now tracked her down and asked her for an interview. She has declined.
Our story was a legitimate one, as the issue of traditional outfits worn by Islamic women is the subject of a debate nationwide. We would be failing in our duty if we chose not to report it for fear of causing upset and we stand by it as an accurate report based on the facts that we had at the time.
We reject the allegation (based on a few idiots responding to the story online) that the Oxford Mail and its readers are overwhelmingly anti-Muslim or indeed racist. On the contrary, this is one of the most tolerant cities in Britain and this newspaper strives to reflect that. A trawl though our archives will prove that beyond any doubt.
If the Guardian or Ms Omar had thought of contacting us before publication of this article, we could have been given an opportunity to put our version of events. We would have been happy to respond and add to the debate. But that might have weakened her story, so it's probably best that she did not bother.
The outcome was the very thing we have been wrongly accused of: a sensationalist, one-sided article which labelled a modern, multi-cultural city and the staff of its local newspaper as a bunch of reactionary rednecks.
Simon O'Neill, editor, Oxford Mail
James, Brighton says...
1:08pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Lilly, nonbigotville says...
1:12pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Lucy Henderson, Paris says...
1:12pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Surely the David Lloyd leisure centre would have her membership details on file?
Yolande knight, says...
1:16pm Fri 20 Apr 07
I once had to swim behind a man wearing a white see-through thong in a public swimming pool (50m). That was quite upsetting.
LW Jolly, Reading, Berks. says...
1:19pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Stu, London says...
1:19pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Also at no point did anyone not question the fact that it might be fairly impractical to go swimming in the full regalia (hijab etc.)?
Colo, says...
1:29pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Adrian, Maidenhead says...
1:32pm Fri 20 Apr 07
KK, Sheffield says...
1:35pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Arfur, oxford says...
1:40pm Fri 20 Apr 07
I agree with Manal Omar - she should be allowed to wear whatever she wants and it is clear that Mr Caldwell has a bit of an agenda.
But you lot with your finger pointing are ridiculous. It's no wonder us Guardian readers have a bad name.
I read the Oxford Mail regularly. It's not perfect but bigoted and racist it is not. Look at the link below for a follow up story they did to Ms Omar's story. And remember this was printed a month ago - long before the Guardian printed its horrific one-sided story.
I can imagine David Lloyd would not give out Ms Omar's number and probably wouldn't be too keen on tracking her down so the whole thing might blow over. However, what is the Guardian's excuse for not contacting staff at the Mail? Their number and contact details are easy to obtain.
The Oxford Mail says it didn't receive anything from Ms Omar - perhaps it isn't a conspiracy but a mistake at one end or another?
Anyway don't let the facts get in the way of your blind PC thuggery.
http://www.oxfordmail.net/search/display.var.1267335.0.muslim_urges_keep_swimming.php
Richard, wales says...
1:48pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Your reporter may have been wrong-footed by the manager's comments, and whatever difficulties you may have had in tracking Ms Omal down, the fact remains - your story was factually incorrect and for that you should apologise. Are you going to?
Dave Hansell, Sheffield says...
1:58pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Your pitiful attempt to wiggle your way out of responsibility for your sloppy journalism won't wash.
The fact that your first point of call after taking the word of the sad excuse for an Englishman Mr Caldwell and the manager of the facility was to get a quote from a lcoal Muslim "community leader." If a newspaper of your size cannot easily track down this lady to get her side of the story you could not have been trying very hard - particularly when she did contact your paper and recieved no response back before the article was printed.
Trying to blame the victim of your actions for not contacting you after this rabid piece of gutter journalism is also despicable. If I'd have been in the same or similar position, having been humiliated and lied about in public and had that humiliation amplified in the way you have done I certainly would not bother with you as you've clearly nailed your colours to the mast in terms of where you and your paper are coming from.
What is clear is that like Mr Caldwell you have no idea whatsoever about what real British/English values actually are.
If you had put your hands up in response to this comment thread and said OK, fair cop, we screwed up we are sorry, most reasonable people would have given you the benefit of the doubt.
Now all you have done is blown that opportunity by pouring further oil on the fire trying to excuse the inexcusable.
Jose, Oxford says...
2:05pm Fri 20 Apr 07
If Simon O'Neill and Fran Bardsley cannot bring themselves to apoligise they should be sacked.
Richard, Wales says...
2:21pm Fri 20 Apr 07
bee, Oxford says...
2:25pm Fri 20 Apr 07
She was not harming anyone, or forcing her views on anyone - so why are so many of you so cheerfully condemning this poor woman? I am utterly ashamed to live in this city sometimes.
Dave Hansell, Sheffield says...
2:30pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Arfur, I think you are missing the point. An individual was publicly humiliated, patronised and bullied at this facility and then found themselves the subject of the same behavior through this newspaper article with no serious attempt to get her side of the story before going to print.
What the Oxford Mail choose to highlight through this incident affecting an individual was to use it to not only further humiliate the individual but also to widen it out to a specific community.
The link you have provided again focuses on the collective and again totaly ignores the individual victim.
I'll repeat, the onus is not on the individual victim to chase up the newspaper before and after the fact. When someone mugs YOU in the street you don't go round to there house to seek redress and remonstrate with them you go elsewher, to the police.
This is what this individual lady has done here. After being ignored by the Oxford Mail and treated shabbily as an individual - used by the paper to provide a platform for the brain-dead bigots amongst us that give us all a bad name - she has gone elswhere for redress.
I'd suggest in the same circumstances you would do the same. As would most people.
The attempt at diverting the issue towards "politically correct Guardian reading finger pointers" is almost as desperate Mr O'Neil's excuses.
tarquin, oxford says...
3:12pm Fri 20 Apr 07
When there's a story about Muslims, immigration or race, the Oxford Mail website usually beseiged with lots of crap from BNP activists in Lancashire. Now it's being beseiged by sheeple in London and Kent. You self-righteous twerps - you're clearly less bothered about Muslims than just having a Friday rant. I'm as sick of you lot as I am the rightwing illiterates.
Alas I am a Guardian reader - but only on Saturday when it's got the Guide section in it (which almost certainly saves the Saturday paper from sinking into oblivion)
mike docherty, Glasgow says...
3:17pm Fri 20 Apr 07
mike docherty, Glasgow says...
3:24pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Rob, London says...
3:25pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Glad I don't have to read your rag down here in London, we have plenty such drivel here anyway. Admit you were wrong in this case.
Gordon, says...
3:26pm Fri 20 Apr 07
What I find quite interesting is that your article is obviously aware of the 'Burqini' and yet the reporter never thought to verify as to whether this was the article worn.
Congratulations, let's forget basic research for our articles and just present crass hearsay.
Dave Hansell, Sheffield says...
3:35pm Fri 20 Apr 07
I'll have to remember next time I see someone fall over in the street; kids throwing stuff at other peoples windows; or a group of self-styled big brave sons of England squaring up to beat up some bespectacled 8 stone dripping wet hulk, to cross over the road and keep my counsel rather than being a responsible citizen and either offering help and support/assistance in case my behavior gets labelled "herd like"; or worse - I get labelled as one of the "chattering classes."
Perhaps I and others should apologise to you and the rest of the self appointed guardians of what you see as British/English values for our shocking display of un-british behavior in not joining in the kicking this lady has recieved from this paper and others involved?
Would you perhaps prefer it if the civilised and responsible citizens that still remain here paying our taxes were to voluntarily deport ourselves elsewhere so as not to upset the delicate sensibilities of those of you who make up the real mob/herd on this island.
It must be such a bore when others challenge this boorish behavior.
lolliepopp, London says...
3:40pm Fri 20 Apr 07
You are the newspaper of a multicultural and world famous educated city. How could you spread such racist bile to your readers? I'm astounded.
And as for Mr Caldwell, sir I find your hat, coat and face offensive. I would however, tolerate it if you weren't causing harm to others around you. As you seem incapable of doing this I suggest you take yourself home and do what you will behind close doors.
Helen R, London, UK says...
3:42pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Alison m, Oxford says...
4:01pm Fri 20 Apr 07
It is probably fair to say that the intention of the Oxford Mail was probably not to fuel racist behaviour (although it was clearly one-sided and sensationalist), and as has been pointed out above, Oxford is in general not a racist place. However, if the Mail wants to retain any shred of respectability after picking on a woman for managing to successfully accommodate the requirements of her religious beliefs within the activities that she wishes to do, it must apologise and tell the real story, and condemn the bigoted and inflammatory comments posted in response to the original story.
tarquin, oxford says...
4:16pm Fri 20 Apr 07
F.F., says...
4:54pm Fri 20 Apr 07
tarquin wrote:They can hold such views without feeling the need to deny others the right to express theirs.
Hmm. If the Oxford Mail is as awful, one-sided and bigoted as the Guardian\'s rapid reaction force claim, how come it\'s let the Guardianistas publish so many comments critical of the paper and its staff?
The paper's claim to have been unable to track down the lady might be genuine, but scroll to the top and you'll see that an eyewitness posted here on 12:20pm Tue 13 Mar 07 giving the correct information - did they make any attempt to track this person? They would have the email address of the poster, that's for sure.
tarquin, oxford says...
5:10pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Haz, OXFORD says...
6:01pm Fri 20 Apr 07
While I do not agree with its tone, I am a regular reader and I have never seen any evidence of a racist or reactionary agenda in the Oxford Mail.
On the contrary, most of the coverage I have seen of minorities has been balanced and supportive.
A few other points need making:
1) The paper printed what it knew AT THE TIME. Now we've all got the benefit of hindsight, which is a wonderful thing.
2) The original story has turned out to be wrong and it has attempted to run another article, but the lady concerned has said No. The paper has also hosted this debate on its own website, which contains stinging attacks on it, without interference or censorship.
3) How could it have interviewed her when it did not know who she was? The assumption that the reporter could just get her details from the leisure club is plain daft. There is such a thing as data protection you know!
4) She has NOT, as far as I can see, asked for an apology, but has instead launched an attack on the paper and Oxford in a national newspaper. Fair enough in the case of the former, but not the latter. Oxford is a VERY multi-cultural city and one with a strong, settled and respected Muslim community.
5) It is enlightening to observe that, among the many articulate, well reasoned posts on here, there are others (presumably also Guardian readers) every bit as bilious, pompous and reactionary as your average Daily Mail fan.
6) I didn't know this website had so many readers from London and Glasgow!
For what it's worth, I'd be very interested to see a follow-up story in my local paper, so I hope tyey can persuade the aggrieved lady at the centre of this story to have a change of heart.
Marilyn, OXFORD says...
6:47pm Fri 20 Apr 07
God knows the OM is far from perfect (never seen a paper that is), but what a load of ignorant claptrap some of these people have spouted. They read one story and then want to hang ebveryone associated with it. How very un-Guardian like. Or is it? Of course the stories wrong looking back at it now and of course there should be a follow-up setting the record straight.
But spare me the righteous indignation.Manal Omar has had her say and how and she strikes me as someone who is well capable of looking after herself.
They won't lift the Guardian article as it's copyright I'd guess and they obviously take issue with some of it.
So come on Ms Omar, call the OM's bluff and give them your side of the story (but if you do please don't label us all as intolerant).
If they dont run it, then they deserve some stick and the Guardian lynch mob will have 'em!
Diarmuid, Manchester says...
7:10pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Simon O'Neill will correct me if I am wrong, but I assume that the "few idiots" he refers to are the people who have come here and posted racist comments, or comments that are in line with a racist agenda (those who wrote along the lines of if-you-don't-like-it-go-home). He asserts that the accusation has been made, based on the postings of those iditos that the Oxford Mail has a racist agenda and that its readers are racist.
I do not doubt that the paper does not aim to push a racist agenda. However, the story fits neatly within the current anti-Muslim agenda being pushed by many people, not least the media.
O'Neill claims that there "is" currently a debate over the dress of Muslim women. I thought that that particular non-event had been forgotten about. It was carefully engineered and manipulated and then allowed to peter out. Surely, any editor that really believes that what women choose to wear (or not wear) is deserving of a news story needs to evaluate where they are going in their career? Similarly, taking a decision to publish a story with only one side is surely questionable? If you couldn't track down Manal Omar, couldn't you find anybody to offer an alternative viewpoint? Perhaps they'd all gone for a picnic? Was there really such a pressing need to report the story with such urgency? I note that you did manage to track down Manal Omar eventually, so presumably she wasn't impossible to find. One is left with the questions why did you fail to seek an alternativ epoint of view to include in the stroy? Why did you insist on publishing a story that singularly failed to address the concerns of the victim?
It is not unreasonable to conclude that you failed to do these things at best because of poor journalism; at worst because you share the values of those who think that Muslims --and everyone else-- should conform to standards that we set.
I am pleased to see that a number of people have written to this site to show their rejection of Ian Caldwell's brash boorishness. I hope that Manal Omar and other people who feel intimidated by bullies such as Caldwell read these messages of support and take heart.
Dave Hansell, Sheffield says...
7:42pm Fri 20 Apr 07
However, the way some posters would have it you would think that there was a howling mob at the gates making a general claim that this represented everything about the paper and all the people of Oxford.
This is as dishonest a representation of the criticism the OM has received as the OM's original story and its dishonest with a purpose - to divert attention from the issue by labelling the critics.
As such, people like tarquin and others, are playing the man rather than the ball - which often happens when people know they don't have a leg to stand on.
Not one of those whinging on about "chattering classes" and "guardian mobs" has seriously addressed the issues and questions raised in criticism of this specific story and the way in which it was done.
How for example did the OM get to hear of the incident? Did Mr Caldwell contact them first or did they find Mr Caldwell?
If the latter how did they find him? Could it have been through his membership of the facility? If so they could have easily found this lady for her side of the story?
If Mr Caldwell contacted the OM first its not exactly rocket science to check with the facility to see if the other individual involved was a member and then to ask the facility (rather than the paper or its journalist) to contact the other individual explaining they had received contact from the OM who were interested in doing a story and would she be willing to contact the number left by the OM to give her side of the story.
Perhaps this is in fact what happened, as the lady in question is adamant that she contacted the OM but received no return contact to give her the opportunity to give a more balanced account of what happened. A point convieniently ignored by those trying to throw a smokescreen around this matter by turning the attention on anyone with the temerity to criticise the way the OM ran this story.
Not content with the unjustified kicking this lady has had to put up with and the fact that the OM chose to be lazy in not locating her for her side of the story and then ignoring her contact with the paper there are some who now have another go at her for not perservering in trying to get her side of the story through the OM but instead going to a national newspaper.
How many chances do you want? As I said earlier, if you got mugged in the street and the mugger ignores your remonstrations over their behavior you don't act like a masochist and carry on risking further abuse from them, you go elsewhere and that's what this lady has done.
So lets cut the crap and the misrepresentation of the victims actions here as refusing a timely opportunity given by the OM to give her side. The OM in this instance had their opportunity, were given another one and they blew it.
Take it on the chin like a man. Don't go off on a self-pitying whine like a mardy arse with this nonsense about "Guardian readers". My kids could construct a better argument.
Julia, Oxford says...
9:18pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Luke, London/Oxford says...
10:11pm Fri 20 Apr 07
F.F., says...
10:27pm Fri 20 Apr 07
tarquin wrote:I didn't mean to suggest that they could interview the witness beforehand - but since they went to the troouble of the follow-up piece about the swimming suits, they obviously hadn't forgotten the story. This poster's comment should have set alarm bells ringing. For the record, I'm more inclined to believe incompetance than intentional racism on their part. But it's still pretty poor.
FF, The eyewitness posted the comment IN RESPONSE to the newspaper story being published ... it\'s difficult to see how the newspaper could interview this person without invoking clairvoyant powers.
John, says...
10:35pm Fri 20 Apr 07
John, says...
10:39pm Fri 20 Apr 07
Billy, Barton, Oxford says...
10:09am Sat 21 Apr 07
Get a life my friend. This thread is way past its sell by date.
I'm off to get my Oxford Mail and then I'll be nicely incited to commit a couple of racist attacks on the way home.
After all, that's what we do here, according to the tossers above.
And Luke, if you think your birthplace is that bad, stay away. You're not wanted anyway.
End of rant.
Jaroslav, Oxford says...
10:58am Sat 21 Apr 07
But no. There's just some self-serving drivel from the editor attacking the victim of the piece. It seems he's upset that Manal Omar is an intelligent and articulate woman with media connections rather than an oppressed rather than an oppressed stereotype worthy of ridicule.
Ayisha, London says...
11:33am Sat 21 Apr 07
What strikes me is your audacity in trying to pinpoint this on Manal. Fact is, if you were so "desperate" to contact her, you could have done so through the club. I also simply refuse to believe that any of the lifeguards on duty, whilst Manal had been swimming, would have told you that she was dressed in robes and a veil, so you could have taken more time to find out more specifically what she was wearing. A basic level of on-line research would also have suggested that perhaps Manal was wearing a type of "Islamic" swimsuit. Does your journalist not know how to employ basic research?
It is more likely that the journalist was trying to jump through, what she perceived to be, a journalistic 'window of opportunity.' Perhaps she thought that, like that Jack Straw article, this would result in a nation-wide debate, thus bringing her article into the limelight and giving her five minutes of fame. Well she has certainly bought attention to herself, however she has also placed her integrity, intentions, honesty, and journalistic 'skills' under severe scrutiny. One questions how she has a position she does at the paper. Its not as if there is a lack of truly skilled people out there who could do a far better job.
Your comeback is fuelled with 'obvious' bitterness. Instead of doing the right thing by admitting your error and apologising, you have the nerve to criticise and blame Manal. She did try to contact the journalist to give her version of events, and fact is, no one bothered to contact her back. So why you think she should make a concerted effort to contact you again prior to publication of her article in The Guardian, is beyond me. Judging by your above response, I am not surprised that Manal has declined an interview with you at this stage. Most people would have. I'm certainly not impressed with you, your journalist,or your paper, and judging by the majority of comments on this page, I see that I am not the only one.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Dave Hansell, Sheffield says...
12:12pm Sat 21 Apr 07
You should get yourself an agent son. Why sit there alone in the dark handling yourself.
John, says...
12:49pm Sat 21 Apr 07
If you don't think that a newspaper editor should be able to punctuate properly, then none of your other opinions, such as about what someone should be doing on a Friday night (though I expect you got ****, like a real grown-up) are worth taking any notice of at all.
chris, egham says...
1:04pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Layla, London says...
1:14pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Manal should be applauded for her desire to stay fit and healthy when public health statistics indicate that people are getting heavier and less fit!
She is a role model for me and other women - whatever their religion.
Shame on Oxford Mail and David Lloyds Gym for not getting her side of the story and making a specticle of this!
Keep swimming Manal!
Anon, London says...
2:36pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Look at the article in the Guardian about this issue and get the full story.
Ian blew things out of proportion because he is a racist and sexist, and the Oxford Mail just went and backed him up.
Don't comment on an issue until you have the full story, not just some right-wing local paper's version of the events!
egan, britain says...
2:59pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Helena, London says...
4:49pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Sid, London says...
6:00pm Sat 21 Apr 07
WOW what a defensive reaction!
What strikes me is the way you have referred to those who have suggested that your paper may be somewhat racist or anti-Muslim, as "idiots."
Well what of those people who did express racist and prejudiced comments on the back of the initial article - the one that bore all the wrong information, perpetuated a gross stereotype, and tarnished a woman who has done more for women's rights than most, if not all, of those who work at your paper.
Are you not going to brand them as idiots too? Most likely not. Thats certainly saying something.
Manny, Oxford says...
7:22pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Hindsight or otherwise, the Mail's got this wrong for sure and the editor's poured fuel on the flames with his response.
Bit it's not a bad or offensive paper in my experience and has acually done good work on behalf of asylum seekers. I also see lots of good postive stuff about the Mulsim community in there on a regular basis.
But you can't blame Manal or those looking in from outside for thinkjing otherwise in the circumstances.
The Mail needs to square the circle on this by going back to Manal and persuaiding her to give her version, preferably in her own words for Oxford readers. And if she wants an apology, then give it to her.
Then maybe something postive will come out of the whole kerfuffle.
How about it OM?
John, Oxford says...
7:25pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Roger, Oxford says...
9:19pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Glyn, London says...
9:37pm Sat 21 Apr 07
However, I for one am prepared to believe that the paper's report wasn't racist, just incompetent.
And it seems to me that Mr O'Neil's reference to "idiots" posting here, was to various racists rather than to his critics.
Sid, London says...
9:42pm Sat 21 Apr 07
But the rest of my comment stands!
Roger, Oxford says...
10:08pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Raishma, London says...
11:31pm Sat 21 Apr 07
Surely the paper has had further opportunity to apologise and has not bothered! Shameful.
Aisha, Oxford says...
1:50am Sun 22 Apr 07
I think it's only right that the Oxford Mail apologises to Manal for printing a one sided and inaccurate story and that from now on the paper checks its facts before it splashes a story across its pages. Lets be clear, the story was only published because the woman in question was a non white skinned Muslim. If the swimmer in question had been wearing a 'full black robe' and didn't look like a funny looking foreigner then it would never have become a 'story. I cant believe that the Oxford Mail didnt speak to the lifeguards on duty to understand that Manals costume was perfectly appropriate.
As Manal wrote in her excellent Guardian article, since when did not reporting the full facts stop a journalist from writing a story about a Muslim in the current climate?
It's interesting that the online versions of the 'The Sun' and 'Daily Star' also picked up and ran with the original story in the Oxford Mail, again this is no accident. These red tops thrive on sensationalist and inaccurate reporting of stories and I gues they couldnt let this opportunity to bash a Muslim women pass them by.
I have been heartened to read the reaction from most people responding, its comforting to know that despite the propaganda and often vile hate fuelled 'journalism' demonising all Muslims (many born and bred in the UK like myself) that so many people can see through the nonsense and spot xenophobia and racism when they see it.
Mr O Neil - you should be ashamed of allowing this story to run - I look forward to you and the so called journalist who wrote the original nonsense apologising to Manal and fast.
Theo Delight, Manchester says...
8:34am Sun 22 Apr 07
Lynn Rankin, Preston says...
10:42am Sun 22 Apr 07
Personally, I find the most offensive leisure-centre sight to be fat men in skimpy trunks.
Laura, Oxford says...
11:50am Sun 22 Apr 07
mitchshrader wrote:Mitchshrader, do you need to see a head doctor sweetheart?
You\\\'ve given up knives and guns, the rights to self defense, and your culture. Pity, that. Gutless, was it? No nerve, giving it back to the abo\\\'s, what? Not surprised, no moral fiber. Be glad when they just give over, it\\\'s painful to watch. The lack of capital punishment, guns, and individual pride has dissolved the British spirit. No lumpy bits left, you can flush now.
tarquin, oxford says...
12:55pm Sun 22 Apr 07
In fact there should be a fatwa (no pun intended) against any man wearing Speedos, regardless of age but particularly those the other side of 50.
Guardianista, Oxford says...
1:38pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Meanwhile, can it please remove the comment by Terry C that has been on the thread since 19 March, and which is clearly racist towards Muslims, the French, and the Germans.
Fatima, Birmingham says...
2:31pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Ayisha, London says...
4:57pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Firstly: To state that Manal wanted to make a statement by wanting to take a swim, is absolutely ludicrous. Had she really wanted to make a statement, this would hardly be the most fitting or effective of avenues. She has been swimming in this attire the world over, so are you implying that for years on end Manals only agenda is to make a statement?
Secondly: To suggest that simply because her mother and sister, and thousands of other Muslim women worldwide do not cover up, proves that it is not part of the Islamic faith is extremely naïve and ill-educated. There are many Muslims who choose to drink, so does that automatically mean that alcohol is permissible within the faith? There are also many who dont pray. Does that mean that prayer is thus not mandatory? I think not. Your argument is extremely weak.
Thirdly: To then accuse Manal of being insensitive to the other women, is pathetic. If you want to make assumptions as to how she thinks about these other women, then admit that, and do not make accusations. And if you would feel uncomfortable in her presence, assuming she is judging you, then thats simply a manifestation of your own insecurities. Besides, it was not a female swimmer who complained it was a male swimmer. At the beach there are many women who feel uncomfortable with their bodies and thus choose to wear sarongs, or short. Are they too being insensitive to those who with to wear bikinis? It seems as though this freedom of clothing choice only seems to come under attack when a religious woman wishes to cover up.
Fourthly: Manal is hardly painting herself out to be a model of a devout Muslim woman. She is simply trying to make the most of the attire and the circumstances available. She says nothing of her degree of religiosity. Why should she not go for a swim? Are you saying only women who wear bikinis have a right to swim?
And finally, if her taking a swim in a covered costume is what you define as fanatical, then yes, Muslims are in trouble. What exactly your problem is I have no idea, but you come across as very narrow minded and bitter, with no regard for the culture of tolerance that you mention. And tolerance isnt something we should be proud of anyway it suggests nothing more than a gritted-through-the-teeth-having-to-put-up-with attitude. Respect is what is needed.
So tell me, exactly what harm has Manal caused?
Fatima, Birmingham says...
5:30pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Fatima, Birmingham says...
5:41pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Ayisha, London says...
5:51pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Deliberately misunderstood: Wow another assumption! Do you take all your assumptions to be concrete fact? Again by insisting that she IS making a statement, you are still assuming she has a certain agenda or intention. Why can you not just accept that all she simply wanted to do was mind her own business and take a swim? Why are you so insistent on demonizing the woman? Still pathetic.
Yes there are many evil acts committed by people of ALL faiths. Take a look at the Virginia massacre for example. The minute they thought he might have been Muslim, the media was talking of Islamic Extremism and Terrorism. However, once they found out he was a Christian, there was no mention of extremism or terrorism, he just went back to being a very disturbed young man. Are you seriously going to start equating stoning to a woman wanting to take a swim? What planet are you on? If anyone seems extreme here its you.
And tell me why the dress is regressive? Are you saying that anything that does not expose skin is oppressive (unless of course its in Vogue!)? And Manal is hardly the face of an oppressed woman. You are talking about a 32 year old who has put her life on the line in Iraq and Afghanistan working on womens development issues and fighting for their constitutional rights. Tell me, what have you done in your life that can even remotely equate to the such a thing. You can yap on about how fanatical and oppressive you think she is, but honey, fact is, she has most likely (and please correct me if I am wrong) done a **** of a lot more of women then you ever will.
Ayisha, London says...
5:54pm Sun 22 Apr 07
WOW yet another assumption? You are on a roll! Honey, I dont wear a burka. I dont even wear a headscarf. Or are you (again) assuming that only women who wear burkas or cover their hair will defend Manal's right?
Ayisha, London says...
5:57pm Sun 22 Apr 07
I have no problem with people throwing out "constructive" criticism about the Muslim faith. This debate is not about the Muslim faith. Its about Manal. You are the one who started accusing her of being fanatical and trying to make a statement simply bc of what she wore. A tad extreme dont you think?
Helena, London says...
6:19pm Sun 22 Apr 07
I dont wear a burka, or a scarf, im not even a muslim, but Im a woman who demands respect from others and thats exactly what Manal was doing. Her choice was to wear her swimsuit in order to be able to swim, one of her passions. Who are we, to tell her how to swim and what to wear. I dont like to be criticised by anyone when I wear my bikini, or my mini skirt, because wearing these pieces of clothes is clearly MY choice, so why should we criticise manal and consider her, as Fatima and others do, as a fanatic nonsense muslim woman? And related to what Fatima says about the fact that other women could feel intimidated, its complete bullshit, why should we feel intimidated, are you intimidated when you see a woman wearing her head-scarf or being veiled? Its a matter of choices, each of us is free to decide how to live and what to preach. I really dont think Manal is in any way extremist and I really cant see where the harm is in going to take a swim, can u please explain me if u think she is harming you in any possible way? Ur opinion, Fatima, is clearly more fanatical and narrow-minded than whatever Manal has done or said in these past days.
Fatima, Birmingham says...
6:53pm Sun 22 Apr 07
V. Ameen, London says...
7:05pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Fatima: I find your comments (and some earlier posts from others) difficult to digest. I fail to see how (as you put it) Ayisha has ignored the gist of your arguement. I look forward to reading your response to her refreshingly clear well presented points.
Fatima, please shed your opinion on the following: what about the feelings of women who DON'T wear bikinis? You said Ms Omar shows "insensitivity on her part to how "other" women who may be dressed in bikinis feel.." Should you not also give deserved consideration to feelings of those who do not favour the bikini? Many people (of varied faiths and body type) are not comfortable in a bikini. Would it not be ridiculous to expect bikini-clad women not to swim just because others feel self-conscious?
Poor Manal. All this for a SWIM !
Ayisha, London says...
7:16pm Sun 22 Apr 07
So anyone who is visibly of a certain faith is making a strong religious statement? So that would be the same of Nuns? Or Jewish men who wear the skullcap? Perhaps the issue is that YOU are reading too much into them. I still fail to grasp what your issue is with people who decide to implement fait in their life and express it through their clothes? Again, you can follow the latest fashion trends but you cant look like someone who follows a particular faith?
As for women who feel intimidated, I still cannot fathom why. Like I said, perhaps its insecurity. Or perhaps you need to stop over analyzing things. It does not bother me in the least bit, and again I dont wear the burka (even though you have decided that I do), I do not cover my hair, and I am not strict about my code of dress.
There are also plenty of women (of all faiths, no faith) who are uncomfortable with women who walk around with their boobs hanging out or those who yank their thongs up higher than the waistband of their jeans. Are we debating them? At the end of the day, each to their own. No one has the right to judge, and unless actual harm is being done, there should be no issue. And dont merge the Jack Straw debate into this. He was referring to the covering of the face. This is hardly the same thing.
I did not brand you a racist. And you were the one who started by referring to Manal as Fanatical. So dont complain when others call your view extreme. I suggest that before you try to sit on the throne of conversational dignity, you ought to take another look at the patronizing, and unimpressive way you came into this discussion, honey!
My guess is that your name isnt really Fatima. Just a nagging suspicion not that I care either way. Perhaps you are a friend of Ian's!
Fatima, Birmingham says...
8:08pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Fatima, Birmingham says...
8:11pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Ayisha, London says...
8:42pm Sun 22 Apr 07
Fatima:
When in her article she said she wore the veil, she was referring to the headscarf. Her pictures clearly show that she does not cover her face. And those who do cover their faces are very unlikely to wear the same style of swimming attire, because they will likely deem it not suitable for themselves.
Further on, she only wrote the article in response to what had been written about her. She wished to correct the false story which was published in The Oxford Mail, and rectify the gross stereotype that was made. Had The Oxford Mail not published the inaccurate story that it did, she would not have gone to The Guardian. This is a woman who stated in her article that she wears the burqini whilst her sister wears the bikini. She is someone who evidently does not care either way how people dress, and supports the notion of freedom of choice. I personally have a great deal of admiration and respect for her, because I know that if I would not have the guts to wear it. Not because I disagree with the outfit, but probably because I would probably be too self-conscious. And that is perhaps a weakness/insecurity.
She is not hung up on people looking at her body. Had she been, do you think she would have posed in the The Guardian wearing it? I dont think so.
I appreciate that we all have different views and perspectives. But again, why is such a big deal made over something so trivial? Why cant we all just do-as-we-do in so long as we dont harm or negatively infringe upon others? If herself, or anyone for that matter, was verbally condemning or judging other women for wearing less, and making them feel uncomfortable, I would expect the club to ask them to leave. As I would have expected them to take a similar approach to Ian who verbally attacked her in front of everyone.
Given much of the bad press about Muslims and given the prevalence of many stereotypes, I can see why some may view Muslims as weirdo extremists. But I assure you, these fanatics and extremists are as much of a detriment to me (as a Muslim) as they are to non-Muslims. I assure you, they are a minority within a minority.
I apologise for missing your joke (and no that was not sarcasm)
Hadley White, London says...
9:38pm Sun 22 Apr 07
I also hope you do decide to return to David Lloyd's and continue to swim in your swimsuit. My reasons are twofold.
1) My experience of the English (as an Aussie expat) is that they abhore public confrontation (except for the mad bigots clearly). I am sure that many people who were present when Mr Caldwell accosted you felt ashamed of his behaviour, but were too timid to stand up to your defense. I suspect that had this incident occurred in the America of your childhood there would not have been the same hesitation to speak publicly. However, now that their conscience has been pricked the people of Oxford will be far more vocal in their support. You will only discover if I am right by returning to the pool.
2) The only way to deal with idiocy and bullies is to stand up to them. If you don't return to the pool then the Mr Caldwells of this world will continue to get away with their appalling behaviour.
Gisli Agustsson, Iceland says...
12:58am Mon 23 Apr 07
tarquin, oxford says...
12:43pm Mon 23 Apr 07
In addition to his other heinous crimes I suspect the original complainant of being a global warming denier.
PS Gisli, I know there's not much happening in Iceland at night except for drinking at that revolving restaurant in Reykjavik but, really, posting comments at nearly 1am about the Oxford Mail is a smidgin depressing.
Musical 2, Yorkshire says...
3:14pm Mon 23 Apr 07
Oldster wrote:You know her then? You certainly appear to know where she's from or did your brain cell simply go cramp during posting
So it will be all right if British women go to this person\'s country and dress and behave in a western way, provided it\'s not a health & safety issue? That\'s fine then. The British are expected to tolerate the immigrants\' customs (some of which are illegal, e.g. they often don\'t observe the Sex Discrimination Act and force their children\'s marriages). Yet it is taken for granted that the immigrants do not have to reciprocate this tolerance in any way, either in their own country or here. (My father was an immigrant, but felt privileged to live here, and would have considered it rude not to observe this country\'s ways.)
Bjork, Oxford, near Iceland (the store) says...
5:31pm Mon 23 Apr 07
Laura, Oxford says...
8:46pm Mon 23 Apr 07
Gisli Agustsson, Iceland says...
9:24pm Mon 23 Apr 07
Ayisha, London says...
12:12am Tue 24 Apr 07
Steve, Banbury says...
6:09pm Wed 25 Apr 07
Ayisha, London says...
10:57pm Mon 30 Apr 07
Tracy, New York says...
12:24am Sat 5 May 07
Sohaib, UK says...
5:07pm Thu 10 May 07
Read HER side of the story. Dont judge just yet.
bernie, England says...
5:40pm Wed 3 Oct 07
How can anyone be offended or feel threatened in any way by a woman wearing a burkini ?
Rubiyah Ghavs, Singapore says...
11:15pm Sun 23 Dec 07
com This swimwear is designed to allow Muslim women to keep their faith while at the same time, enjoy swimming. Personally, I think it is OK for Muslim women to enjoy swimming in public pools as long as they wear proper and approved whole body suit type of swimwear.
Ian Caldwell outside the sports centre
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Nic, Oxford says...
8:36am Tue 13 Mar 07