Cyclists urge council to redraw ‘wasteful road design’

Cyclists urge council to redraw ‘wasteful road design’

Cyclists urge council to redraw ‘wasteful road design’

First published in News

A PETITION asking for plans for The Plain roundabout to be redrawn has been delivered to Oxfordshire County Council.

The council has put together proposals to make the roundabout safer for cyclists. It is planning to spend more than £960,000 on the scheme, with work scheduled to start in the autumn.

But Graham Smith, who represents the South East on the Cyclists Touring Club Council, said a number of cycle-friendly aspects of the design have been removed. He said: “We petitioned the council to reconsider, urgently, the current design for The Plain and the design approach. With four out of five possibly pro-cycling elements removed, only the costly stone footway is left. The county’s concept is destroyed. This wasteful, mostly irrelevant, design must be revisited, urgently.”

He said more segregated space for cyclists was needed and changes should be made to the road around the roundabout.

County councillor David Nimmo Smith, the cabinet member for transport, said: “Even if we were able to make all the changes suggested, other road users would certainly lose out. Huge numbers of bus passengers would face considerable delays if we made the traffic go even slower than we are already proposing.”

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Comments (12)

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7:52am Thu 3 Jul 14

museli says...

I don't see anything in the plan that will improve my safety as a cyclist.

What I suspect will happen if they go ahead is large delivery vehicles will drive on the expensive stones work and cause it to come loose and be a hazard for pedestrians and won't get repaired for ages as the proposal doesn't allow for the predictable extra maintenance costs. Meanwhile motorists will continue to signal to turn down the Cowley Road then carry on to the Iffley Road oblivious to the cyclist who has just joined the traffic steam. A few will insist on attempting to turn straight from Cowley to Iffley Roads - wether because they are thick or just think it's a bit naughty who knows! The roundabout will still get blocked at busy times as the excessive traffic backs up from the pedestrian crossing on St Clements. And things will generally go on as before except that we will all have suffered months of disruption and £800,000 allocated for improving the safety of cyclists will have been wasted.

Do it properly or leave it alone!
I don't see anything in the plan that will improve my safety as a cyclist. What I suspect will happen if they go ahead is large delivery vehicles will drive on the expensive stones work and cause it to come loose and be a hazard for pedestrians and won't get repaired for ages as the proposal doesn't allow for the predictable extra maintenance costs. Meanwhile motorists will continue to signal to turn down the Cowley Road then carry on to the Iffley Road oblivious to the cyclist who has just joined the traffic steam. A few will insist on attempting to turn straight from Cowley to Iffley Roads - wether because they are thick or just think it's a bit naughty who knows! The roundabout will still get blocked at busy times as the excessive traffic backs up from the pedestrian crossing on St Clements. And things will generally go on as before except that we will all have suffered months of disruption and £800,000 allocated for improving the safety of cyclists will have been wasted. Do it properly or leave it alone! museli
  • Score: 8

8:46am Thu 3 Jul 14

Sophia says...

How can you spend a million on a few changes to a roundabout?

There is a need for an independent look at how the county contracts for road works. Not only costly but achingly slow
How can you spend a million on a few changes to a roundabout? There is a need for an independent look at how the county contracts for road works. Not only costly but achingly slow Sophia
  • Score: 8

9:32am Thu 3 Jul 14

Richard of Wantage says...

Spending on Cycle infrastructure is needed across the county. If 800k is being wasted on the Plain then spend it where it will help cyclists and motorists.
Spending on Cycle infrastructure is needed across the county. If 800k is being wasted on the Plain then spend it where it will help cyclists and motorists. Richard of Wantage
  • Score: 8

10:41am Thu 3 Jul 14

EMBOX2 says...

Oxfordshire CC need to think VERY carefully about The Plain. I am only in my 30s yet I have known of 3 different traffic systems at the Plain in that time - NONE have worked and it is easy to see why.

Fundamentally, you are trying to get a quart into a pint pot here, too much traffic on to too many narrow roads.

I can't say I've got any better ideas, but spending £1m won't fix it, because it cannot be fixed without (probably) re-designing Oxford's entire traffic system - probably making the High St to St Clements one way only, and forcing all incoming traffic down Headley Way, Marston Ferry Rd and then Banbury Rd.

Tough one.
Oxfordshire CC need to think VERY carefully about The Plain. I am only in my 30s yet I have known of 3 different traffic systems at the Plain in that time - NONE have worked and it is easy to see why. Fundamentally, you are trying to get a quart into a pint pot here, too much traffic on to too many narrow roads. I can't say I've got any better ideas, but spending £1m won't fix it, because it cannot be fixed without (probably) re-designing Oxford's entire traffic system - probably making the High St to St Clements one way only, and forcing all incoming traffic down Headley Way, Marston Ferry Rd and then Banbury Rd. Tough one. EMBOX2
  • Score: 8

11:04am Thu 3 Jul 14

Danny3 says...

Only so much traffic can be squeezed across Magdalen Bridge, and during peak hours it's simply not possible to fit everyone who wants to, not without massive delays. We need a congestion charging scheme to reduce the number of cars, shifting people either to buses (which would move much faster) or to cycling. Alternatively, we could extend the current High St restrictions to cover Magdalen Bridge.

And if we want cycling through the Plain to be an option for everyone, not just the fit and confident, we need some kind of segregated space for cycling. For a million pounds of cycling funding, something should be achievable that actually makes a difference to cyclists; as it stands cycling money is just being used, as so often, to improve conditions for motor traffic
Only so much traffic can be squeezed across Magdalen Bridge, and during peak hours it's simply not possible to fit everyone who wants to, not without massive delays. We need a congestion charging scheme to reduce the number of cars, shifting people either to buses (which would move much faster) or to cycling. Alternatively, we could extend the current High St restrictions to cover Magdalen Bridge. And if we want cycling through the Plain to be an option for everyone, not just the fit and confident, we need some kind of segregated space for cycling. For a million pounds of cycling funding, something should be achievable that actually makes a difference to cyclists; as it stands cycling money is just being used, as so often, to improve conditions for motor traffic Danny3
  • Score: 3

11:58am Thu 3 Jul 14

Gunslinger says...

So OCC are proposing spending nearly £1m of our money on a cycling scheme that cyclists say they don't want.

Common sense suggests spreading this money instead over a number of smaller projects where safety can be improved and which are practicable without massive disruption to public and other transport.
So OCC are proposing spending nearly £1m of our money on a cycling scheme that cyclists say they don't want. Common sense suggests spreading this money instead over a number of smaller projects where safety can be improved and which are practicable without massive disruption to public and other transport. Gunslinger
  • Score: 5

12:11pm Thu 3 Jul 14

King Joke says...

Danny3 wrote:
Only so much traffic can be squeezed across Magdalen Bridge, and during peak hours it's simply not possible to fit everyone who wants to, not without massive delays. We need a congestion charging scheme to reduce the number of cars, shifting people either to buses (which would move much faster) or to cycling. Alternatively, we could extend the current High St restrictions to cover Magdalen Bridge.

And if we want cycling through the Plain to be an option for everyone, not just the fit and confident, we need some kind of segregated space for cycling. For a million pounds of cycling funding, something should be achievable that actually makes a difference to cyclists; as it stands cycling money is just being used, as so often, to improve conditions for motor traffic
Two good ideas here, both addressing what is clearly becoming untenable, which is the large amount of east-west private through traffic which is still using the city centre. It can't use the High St any more, so it goes through the Science area, St Giles and Beamont St. It doesn't just make things slow for buses and dangerous for cyclists, it slows down the traffic which really does need to access the centre, like delivery vans and post vans.

This east-west flow is putting great pressure on The Plain in the East and Frideswide Sq in the west, and we will see the same problems at both, even after remodelling.

In addition to your two, I'd suggest an alternative which is a bus gate, to the same restrictions as the High St, somewhere between Longwall St and South Parks Rd, to stem the east-west flow. This would make The Plain much easier to negotiate, and with less traffic you could redesign it to accommodate cyclists without causing long delays to buses.
[quote][p][bold]Danny3[/bold] wrote: Only so much traffic can be squeezed across Magdalen Bridge, and during peak hours it's simply not possible to fit everyone who wants to, not without massive delays. We need a congestion charging scheme to reduce the number of cars, shifting people either to buses (which would move much faster) or to cycling. Alternatively, we could extend the current High St restrictions to cover Magdalen Bridge. And if we want cycling through the Plain to be an option for everyone, not just the fit and confident, we need some kind of segregated space for cycling. For a million pounds of cycling funding, something should be achievable that actually makes a difference to cyclists; as it stands cycling money is just being used, as so often, to improve conditions for motor traffic[/p][/quote]Two good ideas here, both addressing what is clearly becoming untenable, which is the large amount of east-west private through traffic which is still using the city centre. It can't use the High St any more, so it goes through the Science area, St Giles and Beamont St. It doesn't just make things slow for buses and dangerous for cyclists, it slows down the traffic which really does need to access the centre, like delivery vans and post vans. This east-west flow is putting great pressure on The Plain in the East and Frideswide Sq in the west, and we will see the same problems at both, even after remodelling. In addition to your two, I'd suggest an alternative which is a bus gate, to the same restrictions as the High St, somewhere between Longwall St and South Parks Rd, to stem the east-west flow. This would make The Plain much easier to negotiate, and with less traffic you could redesign it to accommodate cyclists without causing long delays to buses. King Joke
  • Score: 1

12:52pm Thu 3 Jul 14

HomerSimpsonDoh says...

So what about the East North flow? Where do they go! All you do is put more traffic in ither areas! Doh
So what about the East North flow? Where do they go! All you do is put more traffic in ither areas! Doh HomerSimpsonDoh
  • Score: 2

12:15pm Fri 4 Jul 14

olafpalme says...

King Joke wrote:
Danny3 wrote:
Only so much traffic can be squeezed across Magdalen Bridge, and during peak hours it's simply not possible to fit everyone who wants to, not without massive delays. We need a congestion charging scheme to reduce the number of cars, shifting people either to buses (which would move much faster) or to cycling. Alternatively, we could extend the current High St restrictions to cover Magdalen Bridge.

And if we want cycling through the Plain to be an option for everyone, not just the fit and confident, we need some kind of segregated space for cycling. For a million pounds of cycling funding, something should be achievable that actually makes a difference to cyclists; as it stands cycling money is just being used, as so often, to improve conditions for motor traffic
Two good ideas here, both addressing what is clearly becoming untenable, which is the large amount of east-west private through traffic which is still using the city centre. It can't use the High St any more, so it goes through the Science area, St Giles and Beamont St. It doesn't just make things slow for buses and dangerous for cyclists, it slows down the traffic which really does need to access the centre, like delivery vans and post vans.

This east-west flow is putting great pressure on The Plain in the East and Frideswide Sq in the west, and we will see the same problems at both, even after remodelling.

In addition to your two, I'd suggest an alternative which is a bus gate, to the same restrictions as the High St, somewhere between Longwall St and South Parks Rd, to stem the east-west flow. This would make The Plain much easier to negotiate, and with less traffic you could redesign it to accommodate cyclists without causing long delays to buses.
What buses would the `gate' between Longwall and South Parks be for?
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Danny3[/bold] wrote: Only so much traffic can be squeezed across Magdalen Bridge, and during peak hours it's simply not possible to fit everyone who wants to, not without massive delays. We need a congestion charging scheme to reduce the number of cars, shifting people either to buses (which would move much faster) or to cycling. Alternatively, we could extend the current High St restrictions to cover Magdalen Bridge. And if we want cycling through the Plain to be an option for everyone, not just the fit and confident, we need some kind of segregated space for cycling. For a million pounds of cycling funding, something should be achievable that actually makes a difference to cyclists; as it stands cycling money is just being used, as so often, to improve conditions for motor traffic[/p][/quote]Two good ideas here, both addressing what is clearly becoming untenable, which is the large amount of east-west private through traffic which is still using the city centre. It can't use the High St any more, so it goes through the Science area, St Giles and Beamont St. It doesn't just make things slow for buses and dangerous for cyclists, it slows down the traffic which really does need to access the centre, like delivery vans and post vans. This east-west flow is putting great pressure on The Plain in the East and Frideswide Sq in the west, and we will see the same problems at both, even after remodelling. In addition to your two, I'd suggest an alternative which is a bus gate, to the same restrictions as the High St, somewhere between Longwall St and South Parks Rd, to stem the east-west flow. This would make The Plain much easier to negotiate, and with less traffic you could redesign it to accommodate cyclists without causing long delays to buses.[/p][/quote]What buses would the `gate' between Longwall and South Parks be for? olafpalme
  • Score: 1

3:44pm Fri 4 Jul 14

reallynotpc says...

Message to cyclists - you can LEARN to deal with other traffic. If you are not confident and competent, get trained and practice. Use a bicycle of suitable size and get it adjusted to fit you.

How do you get from Cowley Road to the Holywell Music Rooms with a bicycle?

Practice, practice, practice!
Message to cyclists - you can LEARN to deal with other traffic. If you are not confident and competent, get trained and practice. Use a bicycle of suitable size and get it adjusted to fit you. How do you get from Cowley Road to the Holywell Music Rooms with a bicycle? Practice, practice, practice! reallynotpc
  • Score: 0

2:56pm Sun 6 Jul 14

olafpalme says...

reallynotpc wrote:
Message to cyclists - you can LEARN to deal with other traffic. If you are not confident and competent, get trained and practice. Use a bicycle of suitable size and get it adjusted to fit you.

How do you get from Cowley Road to the Holywell Music Rooms with a bicycle?

Practice, practice, practice!
That is all commendable advice. However, The Plain in its current or proposed form is an extreme example of -requiring- confidence AND relying on the inability of other road users to use THEIR competency and ability in driving. All road users need to be competent.
There are spin-offs related to joint competency if you can get people past the initial anxiety hurdles: more drivers will become cyclists which means those people will be better drivers around other cyclists. This is a large part of the Netherlands success. Almost every `driver' is (or was) almost certainly, also a `cyclist'.
[quote][p][bold]reallynotpc[/bold] wrote: Message to cyclists - you can LEARN to deal with other traffic. If you are not confident and competent, get trained and practice. Use a bicycle of suitable size and get it adjusted to fit you. How do you get from Cowley Road to the Holywell Music Rooms with a bicycle? Practice, practice, practice![/p][/quote]That is all commendable advice. However, The Plain in its current or proposed form is an extreme example of -requiring- confidence AND relying on the inability of other road users to use THEIR competency and ability in driving. All road users need to be competent. There are spin-offs related to joint competency if you can get people past the initial anxiety hurdles: more drivers will become cyclists which means those people will be better drivers around other cyclists. This is a large part of the Netherlands success. Almost every `driver' is (or was) almost certainly, also a `cyclist'. olafpalme
  • Score: 0

3:16pm Sun 6 Jul 14

olafpalme says...

olafpalme wrote:
reallynotpc wrote:
Message to cyclists - you can LEARN to deal with other traffic. If you are not confident and competent, get trained and practice. Use a bicycle of suitable size and get it adjusted to fit you.

How do you get from Cowley Road to the Holywell Music Rooms with a bicycle?

Practice, practice, practice!
That is all commendable advice. However, The Plain in its current or proposed form is an extreme example of -requiring- confidence AND relying on the inability of other road users to use THEIR competency and ability in driving. All road users need to be competent.
There are spin-offs related to joint competency if you can get people past the initial anxiety hurdles: more drivers will become cyclists which means those people will be better drivers around other cyclists. This is a large part of the Netherlands success. Almost every `driver' is (or was) almost certainly, also a `cyclist'.
* ability* of other road users to use THEIR competency
[quote][p][bold]olafpalme[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]reallynotpc[/bold] wrote: Message to cyclists - you can LEARN to deal with other traffic. If you are not confident and competent, get trained and practice. Use a bicycle of suitable size and get it adjusted to fit you. How do you get from Cowley Road to the Holywell Music Rooms with a bicycle? Practice, practice, practice![/p][/quote]That is all commendable advice. However, The Plain in its current or proposed form is an extreme example of -requiring- confidence AND relying on the inability of other road users to use THEIR competency and ability in driving. All road users need to be competent. There are spin-offs related to joint competency if you can get people past the initial anxiety hurdles: more drivers will become cyclists which means those people will be better drivers around other cyclists. This is a large part of the Netherlands success. Almost every `driver' is (or was) almost certainly, also a `cyclist'.[/p][/quote]* ability* of other road users to use THEIR competency olafpalme
  • Score: 0

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