Road signs are ‘not working’ at roundabout

Catherine Fulljames

Catherine Fulljames

First published in News

A SECOND councillor has joined calls for warning “rumble strips” to be installed on the approach to a Bicester roundabout.

Catherine Fulljames says planned road signs are a waste of money and raised painted lines should be added to the A41 approach to the new roundabout at the junction with Vendee Drive.

It comes after another accident at the roundabout earlier this month when a man and woman were taken to hospital after their car crashed into the centre of it.

In April, Bicester town councillor Nick Cotter and Oxfordshire County Council member Les Sibley raised safety concerns. He urged the county council to install rumble strips – which make a noise as vehicles travel over them – to encourage drivers to slow down.

The council said it received developer funding that would pay for bigger speed limit signs and yellow-backed chevron signs in a bid to slow traffic.

Ploughley county councillor Mrs Fulljames said: “People are not taking any notice of the 40mph signs. I drive there at 40mph and there are people overtaking me. You can put all the signs up in the world, but there are some that just don’t read them.”

She said the council should consider rumble strips, similar to those on the A43 near Brackley.

Mrs Fulljames also raised concerns about access to the new park and ride, which will also be off the same roundabout, as traffic is fast moving.

County council spokesman Martin Crabtree said: “The signs are being installed by the developer in the next six weeks. There will then be a period of evaluation, after which we would decide whether any additional measures are needed.”

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Comments (17)

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6:01pm Wed 28 May 14

BigAlBiker says...

It's ok installing rumble strips for lorries and cars but there are more of us using motorbikes and they shake the day lights out of us, signs are enough.
It's ok installing rumble strips for lorries and cars but there are more of us using motorbikes and they shake the day lights out of us, signs are enough. BigAlBiker
  • Score: 10

6:37pm Wed 28 May 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

The people who have had accidents at this roundabout, were obviously not concentrating on their driving when they occurred, road signs should be sufficient for anyone paying attention,
The people who have had accidents at this roundabout, were obviously not concentrating on their driving when they occurred, road signs should be sufficient for anyone paying attention, Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 15

6:53pm Wed 28 May 14

The racer says...

The only way out of this is to straighten the approach, as a proportion of drivers will never look far enough ahead; the empirical evidence so far suggests that the existing curved approach is more than some can cope with - ie, they crash. Moving the roundabout 10-20 metres south-east towards the Wendlebury Road must be a more economical fix than building hundreds of metres of new road to ease the approach. Expensive, but how expensive is clearing up after each RTA?
The only way out of this is to straighten the approach, as a proportion of drivers will never look far enough ahead; the empirical evidence so far suggests that the existing curved approach is more than some can cope with - ie, they crash. Moving the roundabout 10-20 metres south-east towards the Wendlebury Road must be a more economical fix than building hundreds of metres of new road to ease the approach. Expensive, but how expensive is clearing up after each RTA? The racer
  • Score: -14

7:33pm Wed 28 May 14

dragonma5306 says...

Just stick to the speed limit. Simple.
Just stick to the speed limit. Simple. dragonma5306
  • Score: 15

8:05pm Wed 28 May 14

gas465 says...

No need to change anything. If the idiots insist on keep crashing into the roundabout, just revoke their licenses. They should not be on the road, its obvious enough that there is a roundabout there.
No need to change anything. If the idiots insist on keep crashing into the roundabout, just revoke their licenses. They should not be on the road, its obvious enough that there is a roundabout there. gas465
  • Score: 15

11:29pm Wed 28 May 14

OxfordLad30 says...

The racer wrote:
The only way out of this is to straighten the approach, as a proportion of drivers will never look far enough ahead; the empirical evidence so far suggests that the existing curved approach is more than some can cope with - ie, they crash. Moving the roundabout 10-20 metres south-east towards the Wendlebury Road must be a more economical fix than building hundreds of metres of new road to ease the approach. Expensive, but how expensive is clearing up after each RTA?
If drivers are entering the roundabout SO FAST that they can't manage to keep their vehicle on the tarmac, the solution is NOT to adjust the roundabout to lessen the curve and assist them in negotiating it at such ridiculous speeds - this will simply result in serious or fatal collisions between vehicles, on the roundabout.

It is not actually possible to enter the roundabout in the proper manner, giving way and being able to stop if necessary, at the speed limit of 40mph (a limit, not a target). However, IDIOTS are attempting to enter the roundabout in excess of this speed, and instead of hitting the roundabout they could easily have hit a car/bike in the side and killed someone.

These muppets don't realise that the few seconds they "save" by trying to negotiate the roundabout at a wholly inappropriate speed make no difference whatsoever to their journey time. How many times has someone come past you like a bat out of hell, only for you to meet them at a red traffic light or queue of traffic a few moments later. What WOULD make a difference to their journey time (and that of other road users) is learning to drive properly, approaching roundabouts and other hazards at an appropriate speed, in the correct lane, displaying the correct signal, with a greater level of anticipation. Driving progressively, rather than aggressively is the way forward, however there is an unfortunate lack of enforcement when it comes to the overall standard of driving on our roads!
[quote][p][bold]The racer[/bold] wrote: The only way out of this is to straighten the approach, as a proportion of drivers will never look far enough ahead; the empirical evidence so far suggests that the existing curved approach is more than some can cope with - ie, they crash. Moving the roundabout 10-20 metres south-east towards the Wendlebury Road must be a more economical fix than building hundreds of metres of new road to ease the approach. Expensive, but how expensive is clearing up after each RTA?[/p][/quote]If drivers are entering the roundabout SO FAST that they can't manage to keep their vehicle on the tarmac, the solution is NOT to adjust the roundabout to lessen the curve and assist them in negotiating it at such ridiculous speeds - this will simply result in serious or fatal collisions between vehicles, on the roundabout. It is not actually possible to enter the roundabout in the proper manner, giving way and being able to stop if necessary, at the speed limit of 40mph (a limit, not a target). However, IDIOTS are attempting to enter the roundabout in excess of this speed, and instead of hitting the roundabout they could easily have hit a car/bike in the side and killed someone. These muppets don't realise that the few seconds they "save" by trying to negotiate the roundabout at a wholly inappropriate speed make no difference whatsoever to their journey time. How many times has someone come past you like a bat out of hell, only for you to meet them at a red traffic light or queue of traffic a few moments later. What WOULD make a difference to their journey time (and that of other road users) is learning to drive properly, approaching roundabouts and other hazards at an appropriate speed, in the correct lane, displaying the correct signal, with a greater level of anticipation. Driving progressively, rather than aggressively is the way forward, however there is an unfortunate lack of enforcement when it comes to the overall standard of driving on our roads! OxfordLad30
  • Score: 16

8:24am Thu 29 May 14

jonny1976 says...

putting rumble strips in because people cant read signs and drive to the road and conditions is pointless. If you took that approach with every accident then the A34 would have speed bumps every hundred yards
putting rumble strips in because people cant read signs and drive to the road and conditions is pointless. If you took that approach with every accident then the A34 would have speed bumps every hundred yards jonny1976
  • Score: 7

10:30am Thu 29 May 14

snert says...

I said that this roundabout was an accident waiting to happen when plans were made public.

Waxing lyrical on how the "signs are enough" and "you shouldn't have a licence if you can't drive properly" are all well and good but they won't stop people being bad drivers. Sadly our system allows these people to stay as drivers, and in many cases, regardless of how bad they are.

It doesn't change the fact that the roundabout is poorly designed if someone approaches it too fast. Pontificating that you shouldn't speed is all well and good but people do and they always will. It doesn't excuse the poorly designed roundabout in the first place.

When you build a bridge you put side rails on it so people don't fall off. Common sense would tell you not to go so close to the side which negates the need for a side rail preventing you from falling off, but we still put them on there for safety's sake. It's designing safety into something to prevent mishaps and stupidity; something that was not considered when this roundabout was designed and built. The assumption was that people will obey the speed limit on the approach. Sadly, there are many stupid people around and also some that just weren't paying attention hence the high volume of incidents at this roundabout.
I said that this roundabout was an accident waiting to happen when plans were made public. Waxing lyrical on how the "signs are enough" and "you shouldn't have a licence if you can't drive properly" are all well and good but they won't stop people being bad drivers. Sadly our system allows these people to stay as drivers, and in many cases, regardless of how bad they are. It doesn't change the fact that the roundabout is poorly designed if someone approaches it too fast. Pontificating that you shouldn't speed is all well and good but people do and they always will. It doesn't excuse the poorly designed roundabout in the first place. When you build a bridge you put side rails on it so people don't fall off. Common sense would tell you not to go so close to the side which negates the need for a side rail preventing you from falling off, but we still put them on there for safety's sake. It's designing safety into something to prevent mishaps and stupidity; something that was not considered when this roundabout was designed and built. The assumption was that people will obey the speed limit on the approach. Sadly, there are many stupid people around and also some that just weren't paying attention hence the high volume of incidents at this roundabout. snert
  • Score: -1

12:24pm Thu 29 May 14

King Joke says...

gas465 wrote:
No need to change anything. If the idiots insist on keep crashing into the roundabout, just revoke their licenses. They should not be on the road, its obvious enough that there is a roundabout there.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
[quote][p][bold]gas465[/bold] wrote: No need to change anything. If the idiots insist on keep crashing into the roundabout, just revoke their licenses. They should not be on the road, its obvious enough that there is a roundabout there.[/p][/quote]I couldn't have put it better myself. King Joke
  • Score: 6

9:25pm Thu 29 May 14

badger77 says...

How long does it take for road designers to realise that having a massive sign showing the road going straight only for it to bend at a 45 degree angle is asking for trouble when you combine it with the high speed of the vehicles entering the 40 limit.
How long does it take for road designers to realise that having a massive sign showing the road going straight only for it to bend at a 45 degree angle is asking for trouble when you combine it with the high speed of the vehicles entering the 40 limit. badger77
  • Score: -1

7:52am Fri 30 May 14

King Joke says...

How long does it take for motorists to realise that you get your information about road conditions not from road signs, or a sat nav, but by observing what's in front of you?

Road signs are, necessarily, schematic. A scale drawing of the road plan would be nowhere near as clear, and completely unnecessary for users who look where they're going.

It's a pathetic, childish response to blame the authorities when people are very clearly at fault themselves.
How long does it take for motorists to realise that you get your information about road conditions not from road signs, or a sat nav, but by observing what's in front of you? Road signs are, necessarily, schematic. A scale drawing of the road plan would be nowhere near as clear, and completely unnecessary for users who look where they're going. It's a pathetic, childish response to blame the authorities when people are very clearly at fault themselves. King Joke
  • Score: 9

9:15am Fri 30 May 14

wales01man says...

Put a Speed camera before the Roundabout after the 40mph sign its not the road that is dangerous its the drivers who are to stupid to see a sign or see that the road bends.
THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ROUNDABOUTS THAT AR COVERED IN BLACK AND WHITE BRICKS ARE THEY CONSIDERED TO BE TARGETS?
Put a Speed camera before the Roundabout after the 40mph sign its not the road that is dangerous its the drivers who are to stupid to see a sign or see that the road bends. THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ROUNDABOUTS THAT AR COVERED IN BLACK AND WHITE BRICKS ARE THEY CONSIDERED TO BE TARGETS? wales01man
  • Score: 3

1:21pm Fri 30 May 14

Severian says...

badger77 wrote:
How long does it take for road designers to realise that having a massive sign showing the road going straight only for it to bend at a 45 degree angle is asking for trouble when you combine it with the high speed of the vehicles entering the 40 limit.
This road doesn't bend at a 45 degree angle - it has a slight left curve as you approach the give way line (at which you should stop or approach very slowly until you're sure your entry onto the roundabout is safe).

The real problem is that people are blinded by their need to get to Bicester Village as quickly as possible.

We certainly could redesign the roundabout layout, at a cost of many hundreds of thousands of pounds. We could also do what Catherine says and install rumble strips - like they have on the road to Buckingham at the end of the dual carriageway after Finmere. We could simply build the roundabout to be much higher, and more solid, so the idiots who crash into it would never be back for a second go. Or we could put a series of speed cameras on the A34 to catch the idiots who approach the roundabout at 80mph.

I think commonsense dictates that the cheapest and quickest solution will be to start with rumble strips, and then add other measures if that doesn't work.
[quote][p][bold]badger77[/bold] wrote: How long does it take for road designers to realise that having a massive sign showing the road going straight only for it to bend at a 45 degree angle is asking for trouble when you combine it with the high speed of the vehicles entering the 40 limit.[/p][/quote]This road doesn't bend at a 45 degree angle - it has a slight left curve as you approach the give way line (at which you should stop or approach very slowly until you're sure your entry onto the roundabout is safe). The real problem is that people are blinded by their need to get to Bicester Village as quickly as possible. We certainly could redesign the roundabout layout, at a cost of many hundreds of thousands of pounds. We could also do what Catherine says and install rumble strips - like they have on the road to Buckingham at the end of the dual carriageway after Finmere. We could simply build the roundabout to be much higher, and more solid, so the idiots who crash into it would never be back for a second go. Or we could put a series of speed cameras on the A34 to catch the idiots who approach the roundabout at 80mph. I think commonsense dictates that the cheapest and quickest solution will be to start with rumble strips, and then add other measures if that doesn't work. Severian
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Fri 30 May 14

King Joke says...

^ What Severian said.

Either that or don't allow the Romans to decide on the road alignment ever again!
^ What Severian said. Either that or don't allow the Romans to decide on the road alignment ever again! King Joke
  • Score: 0

8:21am Tue 3 Jun 14

the wizard says...

Of course the big positive to come out of these accidents is that those that have crashed will have learned their lesson the hard way, and should now be taken to court and done for driving without care and attention, and also pay for the clear up operation. That message will make others take notice, and if they don't well a 6 month ban, which will cause them problems and increased insurance premiums will have an effect. It sends the message that the speed limits are there for a reason. Perhaps the siting of a speed camera, close to the roundabout will also make some drivers think twice, sadly there will always be the odd idiot, who thinks he/she knows better.
Of course the big positive to come out of these accidents is that those that have crashed will have learned their lesson the hard way, and should now be taken to court and done for driving without care and attention, and also pay for the clear up operation. That message will make others take notice, and if they don't well a 6 month ban, which will cause them problems and increased insurance premiums will have an effect. It sends the message that the speed limits are there for a reason. Perhaps the siting of a speed camera, close to the roundabout will also make some drivers think twice, sadly there will always be the odd idiot, who thinks he/she knows better. the wizard
  • Score: 2

8:31pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Hammersmith Pops says...

I assume that people that suggest rumble strips as a solution have good backs and hips, if they succeed to to get them installed I hope they get chronic back pain themselves . The obvious way is speed traps not just one by the roundabout put more down the road from the M40 junction.
I of course expect all the speeders to be up in arms saying its a money making idea but if you keep to the speed limit you don't get fined I would actually like to see cameras both ends of that road and work out your average along the full length of the road which would stop the raceway antics of many drivers I've seen using that road
But as said in previous comments it's not just one roundabout most have damage from stupid drivers
I assume that people that suggest rumble strips as a solution have good backs and hips, if they succeed to to get them installed I hope they get chronic back pain themselves . The obvious way is speed traps not just one by the roundabout put more down the road from the M40 junction. I of course expect all the speeders to be up in arms saying its a money making idea but if you keep to the speed limit you don't get fined I would actually like to see cameras both ends of that road and work out your average along the full length of the road which would stop the raceway antics of many drivers I've seen using that road But as said in previous comments it's not just one roundabout most have damage from stupid drivers Hammersmith Pops
  • Score: -1

12:34pm Thu 12 Jun 14

King Joke says...

If you've got a bad back drive more slowly - simples.

At any rate the rumble strips we're talking about here are unlikely to trigger back pain. They are not speed humps, they are thick bands of road-marking paint at repeatedly closer intervals. As other people have pointed out, these are already in use locally, at the terminal roundabouts of the Finmere Bypass where presumably they have not been a problem.
If you've got a bad back drive more slowly - simples. At any rate the rumble strips we're talking about here are unlikely to trigger back pain. They are not speed humps, they are thick bands of road-marking paint at repeatedly closer intervals. As other people have pointed out, these are already in use locally, at the terminal roundabouts of the Finmere Bypass where presumably they have not been a problem. King Joke
  • Score: 0

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