Drivers failing to realise they are a traffic problem

Drivers failing to realise they are a traffic problem

Drivers failing to realise they are a traffic problem

First published in News

‘After flooding and fatberg, motorists face misery again,’ runs the doom-and-gloom headline.

But seriously – how much sympathy are we supposed to have?

Way too many people drive into this cramped city day in day out. Traffic edges from queue to queue around the city, stop-start, its polluting cocktail of emissions seeping into the city like cyanide running through veins.

Some, presumably, “have to”. But what about the vast majority who don’t? Wedded to their cars, they continue to drive, hopelessly, without apparently ever considering the alternatives. What goes on inside their heads?

I had a meeting recently with someone who drives in to work in Headington every day on the same route. He arrived 45 minutes late for our 9am appointment with a “Sorry. Dreadful traffic” ‘ I smiled, not unaccustomed myself to occasional tardiness – always my own dilly-dallying fault. However, I thought: “But you ARE the traffic and you make this trip every single day. The park-and-ride bus stops less than 100 metres from your office. And what about cycling?”

But it wasn’t that kind of a meeting. Sad though to see a perfectly able commuter fail to grasp the nettle.

Back on Cowley Road I was musing on people’s poor decision-making. Now don’t get me wrong – I am not anti-car. Far from it! I love my car and enjoy using it, but not in the city.

My reverie was broken by a rather beautiful sight: a guy in his 50s with a short grey goatee on a long, low Bullitt cargo bike.

He was stuck in traffic the same as all the cars and buses, but he stood apart, a solution, not a part of the problem. His face grimaced against the fumes, but when I caught up with him making a delivery to BeeLine Bikes, I realised what a happy and lucky man he is.

Steve Reynolds formed mercurycyclemessengers.co.uk after seeing the glut of small vans delivering single-packages to city-centre destinations. Our medieval city wasn’t designed to cope with 1,000+ couriers per day on top of regular traffic – and this is where Mercury Messengers step in. Steve does fast, green deliveries in the city for a fraction of the price of a van courier.

The day I saw him he was delivering 100 kilos of coffee from Witney to cafes in Oxford. There are some great photos of his laden Bullitt cargo bike on his Facebook page. These beasts can carry a washing machine and even small sofas. In Holland, Germany and Denmark, DHL uses Bullitts to deliver in cities similar to Oxford, using a cargo hub near the edge of the city and cargo bikes to deliver within.

Oxford will no doubt need to do the same very soon.

What a great business idea.

Jealous? Not half!

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Comments (43)

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10:26am Tue 27 May 14

BigAlBiker says...

One day James will realise that we have options and choices, people choose to drive their car if they want to, choose to go by bus if they want to and some go by bicycle.

Simples, put up with it, it's a free country so to speak.
One day James will realise that we have options and choices, people choose to drive their car if they want to, choose to go by bus if they want to and some go by bicycle. Simples, put up with it, it's a free country so to speak. BigAlBiker
  • Score: 8

10:34am Tue 27 May 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

It's got to the stage now, that if I see James' photo next to an article, I don't both reading it
It's got to the stage now, that if I see James' photo next to an article, I don't both reading it Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 4

10:35am Tue 27 May 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
It's got to the stage now, that if I see James' photo next to an article, I don't both reading it
That should of course read.......It's got to the stage now, that if I see James' photo next to an article, I don't bother reading it......
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: It's got to the stage now, that if I see James' photo next to an article, I don't both reading it[/p][/quote]That should of course read.......It's got to the stage now, that if I see James' photo next to an article, I don't bother reading it...... Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 5

10:45am Tue 27 May 14

Oxonian says...

James says that the vast majority of motorists don't have to drive into Oxford. As usual, he misses an important point: that many commuters need to drive into Oxford because there is no suitable bus route from where they live.

And where does James get the figure of 1,000+ couriers coming into Oxford every day? This sounds like a figure he has dreamed up. I'd like to see the evidence.

James simple-mindedly has an easy solution to Oxford's traffic problems: everyone should cycle. But some people can't cycle - perhaps because of a disability or (in my case) a poor sense of balance which meant that, last time I tried cycling, I toppled over and bashed my hip on the hard road surface.
James says that the vast majority of motorists don't have to drive into Oxford. As usual, he misses an important point: that many commuters need to drive into Oxford because there is no suitable bus route from where they live. And where does James get the figure of 1,000+ couriers coming into Oxford every day? This sounds like a figure he has dreamed up. I'd like to see the evidence. James simple-mindedly has an easy solution to Oxford's traffic problems: everyone should cycle. But some people can't cycle - perhaps because of a disability or (in my case) a poor sense of balance which meant that, last time I tried cycling, I toppled over and bashed my hip on the hard road surface. Oxonian
  • Score: 8

10:54am Tue 27 May 14

Richard of Wantage says...

In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful.
In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful. Richard of Wantage
  • Score: 38

10:58am Tue 27 May 14

mytaxes says...

BigAlBiker wrote:
One day James will realise that we have options and choices, people choose to drive their car if they want to, choose to go by bus if they want to and some go by bicycle.

Simples, put up with it, it's a free country so to speak.
I could not agree more with you and don't forget those who walk! There are so many intolerant of others in Oxford it's no wonder everyone looks so miserable. Why don't you forget about car drivers James and just enjoy your cycling, you can feel as smug as you like just don't show it to others.
[quote][p][bold]BigAlBiker[/bold] wrote: One day James will realise that we have options and choices, people choose to drive their car if they want to, choose to go by bus if they want to and some go by bicycle. Simples, put up with it, it's a free country so to speak.[/p][/quote]I could not agree more with you and don't forget those who walk! There are so many intolerant of others in Oxford it's no wonder everyone looks so miserable. Why don't you forget about car drivers James and just enjoy your cycling, you can feel as smug as you like just don't show it to others. mytaxes
  • Score: 7

12:20pm Tue 27 May 14

Botley_boy says...

Its simple, people like living in their private bubble. They like to do what they want when they want and not waste time waiting for a bus. (although ironically this involves queing up with everyone else and doing as you are told but the illusion of independence is still there............ ever seen a new car advert that actually shows other cars on the road?!!
Its simple, people like living in their private bubble. They like to do what they want when they want and not waste time waiting for a bus. (although ironically this involves queing up with everyone else and doing as you are told but the illusion of independence is still there............ ever seen a new car advert that actually shows other cars on the road?!! Botley_boy
  • Score: 23

12:22pm Tue 27 May 14

King Joke says...

''James says that the vast majority of motorists don't have to drive into Oxford. As usual, he misses an important point: that many commuters need to drive into Oxford because there is no suitable bus route from where they live.''

That's what the Park & Ride is for, as a back-stop for people who don't live near a bus route.
''James says that the vast majority of motorists don't have to drive into Oxford. As usual, he misses an important point: that many commuters need to drive into Oxford because there is no suitable bus route from where they live.'' That's what the Park & Ride is for, as a back-stop for people who don't live near a bus route. King Joke
  • Score: 26

12:30pm Tue 27 May 14

Ceeps60 says...

Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine!
Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine! Ceeps60
  • Score: -11

12:44pm Tue 27 May 14

Madi50n says...

I am one of the 'Have to' brigade I'm afraid, but not because of the usual reasons, I live quite near Oxford, work in Oxford and my little one goes to a pre-school in Oxford.

Last summer I tried cycling in with my child on the back of my bike, and whilst it was quicker on most days and I felt healthier, I hated every single second of it. Taxi's and Buses sitting on my rear wheel in the shared space and passing way too close, cars overtaking and cutting in front of us.

Where cycle-lanes existed they were rutted, overhung with bushes and trees, parked in by delivery drivers, taxis and people just stopping for a minute.

Cycling is too dangerous and the infrastructure is atrocious. there is literally no incentive for me to choose an alternative, so if I ant to guarantee I get my child to pre-school and back with no serious injuries or with dying I 'Have to' use a car.

The bus routes would mean a drop off would take 30 minutes then another 30 to get to work and the same back, so an hour each way, if the buses are on time, and in the rain and cold? It takes about 40 minutes in my car, nice and dry and quicker then public transport.

I Drive because it's safe, convenient and given I have a Band A car, with no VED and good economy, much cheaper than public transport.

Until the cycling infrastructure is up to scratch i.e. more than the afterthought of painted lines it is now; until those drivers who think Cyclists are second-class citizens learn differently; and until public transport is much much better than it is now, I and others like me will stay in our cars because it's the safest, quickest and cheapest way to get about.

This city is heading for gridlock, but I'm not putting my or my child's life in danger to reduce that, especially when the people who were putting us in danger don't appreciate that we could have been in front of them in our car. Which we are now. Adding to the traffic.
I am one of the 'Have to' brigade I'm afraid, but not because of the usual reasons, I live quite near Oxford, work in Oxford and my little one goes to a pre-school in Oxford. Last summer I tried cycling in with my child on the back of my bike, and whilst it was quicker on most days and I felt healthier, I hated every single second of it. Taxi's and Buses sitting on my rear wheel in the shared space and passing way too close, cars overtaking and cutting in front of us. Where cycle-lanes existed they were rutted, overhung with bushes and trees, parked in by delivery drivers, taxis and people just stopping for a minute. Cycling is too dangerous and the infrastructure is atrocious. there is literally no incentive for me to choose an alternative, so if I ant to guarantee I get my child to pre-school and back with no serious injuries or with dying I 'Have to' use a car. The bus routes would mean a drop off would take 30 minutes then another 30 to get to work and the same back, so an hour each way, if the buses are on time, and in the rain and cold? It takes about 40 minutes in my car, nice and dry and quicker then public transport. I Drive because it's safe, convenient and given I have a Band A car, with no VED and good economy, much cheaper than public transport. Until the cycling infrastructure is up to scratch i.e. more than the afterthought of painted lines it is now; until those drivers who think Cyclists are second-class citizens learn differently; and until public transport is much much better than it is now, I and others like me will stay in our cars because it's the safest, quickest and cheapest way to get about. This city is heading for gridlock, but I'm not putting my or my child's life in danger to reduce that, especially when the people who were putting us in danger don't appreciate that we could have been in front of them in our car. Which we are now. Adding to the traffic. Madi50n
  • Score: 31

12:45pm Tue 27 May 14

Madi50n says...

Ceeps60 wrote:
Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine!
When you say "We have all paid for them to have" what exactly do you mean?
[quote][p][bold]Ceeps60[/bold] wrote: Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine![/p][/quote]When you say "We have all paid for them to have" what exactly do you mean? Madi50n
  • Score: 19

1:35pm Tue 27 May 14

Andrew:Oxford says...

Oxonian wrote:
James says that the vast majority of motorists don't have to drive into Oxford. As usual, he misses an important point: that many commuters need to drive into Oxford because there is no suitable bus route from where they live.

And where does James get the figure of 1,000+ couriers coming into Oxford every day? This sounds like a figure he has dreamed up. I'd like to see the evidence.

James simple-mindedly has an easy solution to Oxford's traffic problems: everyone should cycle. But some people can't cycle - perhaps because of a disability or (in my case) a poor sense of balance which meant that, last time I tried cycling, I toppled over and bashed my hip on the hard road surface.
If we take the core 1000 couriers as a fair and honest value. Couriers tend to work on a mutli-town multi-drop arrangement making around 6-8 deliveries an hour.

So if they spend 2 hours in Oxford during their run, these 1000 couriers are actually saving 16,000 journeys to shops or delivery offices in and around the city.
[quote][p][bold]Oxonian[/bold] wrote: James says that the vast majority of motorists don't have to drive into Oxford. As usual, he misses an important point: that many commuters need to drive into Oxford because there is no suitable bus route from where they live. And where does James get the figure of 1,000+ couriers coming into Oxford every day? This sounds like a figure he has dreamed up. I'd like to see the evidence. James simple-mindedly has an easy solution to Oxford's traffic problems: everyone should cycle. But some people can't cycle - perhaps because of a disability or (in my case) a poor sense of balance which meant that, last time I tried cycling, I toppled over and bashed my hip on the hard road surface.[/p][/quote]If we take the core 1000 couriers as a fair and honest value. Couriers tend to work on a mutli-town multi-drop arrangement making around 6-8 deliveries an hour. So if they spend 2 hours in Oxford during their run, these 1000 couriers are actually saving 16,000 journeys to shops or delivery offices in and around the city. Andrew:Oxford
  • Score: 4

1:45pm Tue 27 May 14

cweb says...

Ceeps60 wrote:
Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine!
The mind boggles how you could think that "a lot" of the traffic problems in Oxford are caused by cyclists not using cycle lanes (as they are entitled to do - none are mandatory). You might have to wait a few seconds to pass safely, at least until you reach the next queue or set of lights, but "a lot" seems like you might be exaggerating the point here....
[quote][p][bold]Ceeps60[/bold] wrote: Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine![/p][/quote]The mind boggles how you could think that "a lot" of the traffic problems in Oxford are caused by cyclists not using cycle lanes (as they are entitled to do - none are mandatory). You might have to wait a few seconds to pass safely, at least until you reach the next queue or set of lights, but "a lot" seems like you might be exaggerating the point here.... cweb
  • Score: 21

1:49pm Tue 27 May 14

King Joke says...

Yes, and the fact that at the busiest times the cyclists are cruising past the stationary traffic, whether in lanes or not. THis rather suggests the cyclists aren't at fault.

I sympathise greatly with Madison. Cycling is quick and easy for those not hauling a kid along with them, and buses are hamstrung by the same congestion leading to the 30-min penalty over using the car. THere is no doubt however that there is great scope for modal shift. The weekend inbound jams on the main radials are largely made up of singly-occupied cars. If they're shopping it's likely they'd transfer to the bus rather than a bike, but this would help cyclists too.
Yes, and the fact that at the busiest times the cyclists are cruising past the stationary traffic, whether in lanes or not. THis rather suggests the cyclists aren't at fault. I sympathise greatly with Madison. Cycling is quick and easy for those not hauling a kid along with them, and buses are hamstrung by the same congestion leading to the 30-min penalty over using the car. THere is no doubt however that there is great scope for modal shift. The weekend inbound jams on the main radials are largely made up of singly-occupied cars. If they're shopping it's likely they'd transfer to the bus rather than a bike, but this would help cyclists too. King Joke
  • Score: 19

2:12pm Tue 27 May 14

yabbadabbadoo256 says...

Ceeps60 wrote:
Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine!
Sadly this is the way the neo-liberal greens expect us to live.. toe the line and roll over and cough when needed
[quote][p][bold]Ceeps60[/bold] wrote: Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine![/p][/quote]Sadly this is the way the neo-liberal greens expect us to live.. toe the line and roll over and cough when needed yabbadabbadoo256
  • Score: -10

2:12pm Tue 27 May 14

Danny A says...

Yeah, pretty much every trip in a car. simply count the amount of time you are waiting behind a cyclist and count the time you are waiting behind another motor vehicle, reference to say doing the journey in the middle of the night when it's empty. That gives you an idea of what is causing the congestion...

We'll see if the second attempt Thornhill bike hire gets anywhere...
Yeah, pretty much every trip in a car. simply count the amount of time you are waiting behind a cyclist and count the time you are waiting behind another motor vehicle, reference to say doing the journey in the middle of the night when it's empty. That gives you an idea of what is causing the congestion... We'll see if the second attempt Thornhill bike hire gets anywhere... Danny A
  • Score: 13

2:16pm Tue 27 May 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

Richard of Wantage wrote:
In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful.
Oxford plan for the future?
You're living on cloud cuckoo land aren't you, even if the county and city councils got together, I doubt they could plan the proverbial p!ss up in a brewery.......
..........personally
, I think moving bus-stops off the main carriageways, would alleviate a good percentage of the traffic problems, and shooting the person responsible for putting so many bus-stops at the top of St. Aldate's, would benefit humanity too.
[quote][p][bold]Richard of Wantage[/bold] wrote: In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful.[/p][/quote]Oxford plan for the future? You're living on cloud cuckoo land aren't you, even if the county and city councils got together, I doubt they could plan the proverbial p!ss up in a brewery....... ..........personally , I think moving bus-stops off the main carriageways, would alleviate a good percentage of the traffic problems, and shooting the person responsible for putting so many bus-stops at the top of St. Aldate's, would benefit humanity too. Dilligaf2010
  • Score: -13

2:19pm Tue 27 May 14

King Joke says...

I'm not sure Thornhill is the place I'd start a bike hire scheme. It's long way to the City Centre from there and there's a difficult (on a heavy hire-bike) hill on the way back. I'd start with the PT termini - the Railway Station, Gloucester Green, Castle St and Magdalen St. Maybe then I'd expand to Seacourt P&R as that is nearest to the City and along a flat road.

Thornhill, if it were going to cater for anything, would be for commuting to the hospitals. You'd have to ensure there was enough room to dock or park the bikes at all the hospital sites, close enough to people's offices to make it worth their while - no point having a 10 min bike ride from the car to the site if it's then a 15 min walk to your office...
I'm not sure Thornhill is the place I'd start a bike hire scheme. It's long way to the City Centre from there and there's a difficult (on a heavy hire-bike) hill on the way back. I'd start with the PT termini - the Railway Station, Gloucester Green, Castle St and Magdalen St. Maybe then I'd expand to Seacourt P&R as that is nearest to the City and along a flat road. Thornhill, if it were going to cater for anything, would be for commuting to the hospitals. You'd have to ensure there was enough room to dock or park the bikes at all the hospital sites, close enough to people's offices to make it worth their while - no point having a 10 min bike ride from the car to the site if it's then a 15 min walk to your office... King Joke
  • Score: 11

3:57pm Tue 27 May 14

deedee444 says...

Subsidise electric bikes....that's the way forward,also Free parking at the p+r and subsidised fares, you have to make it much cheaper to bus than drive,trouble is the council would go bust if everyone did use p+r or bikes....for all their green bluster the council NEED cars in the city centre
Subsidise electric bikes....that's the way forward,also Free parking at the p+r and subsidised fares, you have to make it much cheaper to bus than drive,trouble is the council would go bust if everyone did use p+r or bikes....for all their green bluster the council NEED cars in the city centre deedee444
  • Score: 3

4:01pm Tue 27 May 14

King Joke says...

Er which council? The City Council needs City Centre parking as a revenue stream, whereas the County has very little City Centre parking .

This difference has to be appreciated to understand the conflicting policies. The County is the transport authority and has car restraint in the city as a stated policy, as handling volumes of traffic is a cost to be borne. The City on the other hand is not a transport authority and collects revenue from its central car parks.

Revenue for one represents costs to the other, and savings for one means revenue loss to the other!
Er which council? The City Council needs City Centre parking as a revenue stream, whereas the County has very little City Centre parking [on-street on the High St evenings only for instance]. This difference has to be appreciated to understand the conflicting policies. The County is the transport authority and has car restraint in the city as a stated policy, as handling volumes of traffic is a cost to be borne. The City on the other hand is not a transport authority and collects revenue from its central car parks. Revenue for one represents costs to the other, and savings for one means revenue loss to the other! King Joke
  • Score: 5

6:50pm Tue 27 May 14

museli says...

yabbadabbadoo256 wrote:
Ceeps60 wrote:
Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine!
Sadly this is the way the neo-liberal greens expect us to live.. toe the line and roll over and cough when needed
Neo-liberal green! I think you're get your insults muddled up there - never met one of them.
[quote][p][bold]yabbadabbadoo256[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ceeps60[/bold] wrote: Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine![/p][/quote]Sadly this is the way the neo-liberal greens expect us to live.. toe the line and roll over and cough when needed[/p][/quote]Neo-liberal green! I think you're get your insults muddled up there - never met one of them. museli
  • Score: 9

8:11am Wed 28 May 14

King Joke says...

museli wrote:
yabbadabbadoo256 wrote:
Ceeps60 wrote:
Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine!
Sadly this is the way the neo-liberal greens expect us to live.. toe the line and roll over and cough when needed
Neo-liberal green! I think you're get your insults muddled up there - never met one of them.
Toe the line? No, keep sitting in traffic jams going nowhere and feeding money to oil companies is toeing the line.

Saying rollocks to all that and moving around sustainably is much more independent.
[quote][p][bold]museli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yabbadabbadoo256[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ceeps60[/bold] wrote: Think I agree with the person's idea to stop reading these articles as they make me go aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!. I am sick of being told by this man how we should all travel whilst he blows his own trumpet. We don't all live on a bus route, we don't all have the ability to cycle, and we have a choice!! Also a lot of the traffic hold ups are caused by his fellow cyclists who refuse to use the cycle lanes which we have all paid for them to have and also ride two or more abreast. Put your own house in order before you start on mine![/p][/quote]Sadly this is the way the neo-liberal greens expect us to live.. toe the line and roll over and cough when needed[/p][/quote]Neo-liberal green! I think you're get your insults muddled up there - never met one of them.[/p][/quote]Toe the line? No, keep sitting in traffic jams going nowhere and feeding money to oil companies is toeing the line. Saying rollocks to all that and moving around sustainably is much more independent. King Joke
  • Score: 13

2:02pm Wed 28 May 14

robbo81 says...

I actually partly agree with the author, although he is a bit cycle crazy!

I've said this before though and I'll say again. It isn't viable to use any form of transport in Oxford.

Cycling - most cyclists in Oxford are a danger to themselves. Not entirely their fault, a lack of cycle lanes, safe cycling routes and places to lock and store bikes hinders them.

Buses - why oh why don't we just have Oyster Cards in Oxford? As my GF put it.... I can't wait to stop using buses in oxford, fed up of queuing in the rain as a 20 dithering idiots in front of me search out the correct change, scramble for a seat only to be dropped off 500 meters from where I want to go.
Most of the time the bus is in the same traffic as the cars are because more room is given to pedestrians in Oxford than any other form of commuter. So all you gain is the chance of catching a cold from one of your fellow travellers. By the time your fellow communters have found that awkward 20 pence in the dark depths of their pocket the next bus has arrived behind you and is adding to the monumental traffic jam as it tries to edge out from behind. You'll see this daily on Cowley Rd and St Clems and all along the high street. The issue is compounded by idiotic cyclists attempting to undertake, whilst drivers cautiously try to use the wrong side of the road to overtake. Normally you'll also find a pedestrian, with a suitcase also trying to scrabble in front of it all.

Cars - why bother. £2.40 for 30 mins in the westgate. I cycled the other day from Wolvercote to Cowley Rd, I obeyed all traffic lights etc and did the journey in 20 minutes. I drove the same route, 18 minutes. Then when I arrived I couldn't park! Oxford just doesn't flow, traffic light timings are insane. It's littered with confusing signs and pedestrians just walk in front of cars as if they're invincible.

Oxford is a brilliant example of how badly wrong a council can get it. It should stay exactly as it is and serve as a warning to all other cities and councils.

Although back to the article - the chaps courier business is a great idea and I have seen this sort of thing at work in Denmark. Good on him.
I actually partly agree with the author, although he is a bit cycle crazy! I've said this before though and I'll say again. It isn't viable to use any form of transport in Oxford. Cycling - most cyclists in Oxford are a danger to themselves. Not entirely their fault, a lack of cycle lanes, safe cycling routes and places to lock and store bikes hinders them. Buses - why oh why don't we just have Oyster Cards in Oxford? As my GF put it.... I can't wait to stop using buses in oxford, fed up of queuing in the rain as a 20 dithering idiots in front of me search out the correct change, scramble for a seat only to be dropped off 500 meters from where I want to go. Most of the time the bus is in the same traffic as the cars are because more room is given to pedestrians in Oxford than any other form of commuter. So all you gain is the chance of catching a cold from one of your fellow travellers. By the time your fellow communters have found that awkward 20 pence in the dark depths of their pocket the next bus has arrived behind you and is adding to the monumental traffic jam as it tries to edge out from behind. You'll see this daily on Cowley Rd and St Clems and all along the high street. The issue is compounded by idiotic cyclists attempting to undertake, whilst drivers cautiously try to use the wrong side of the road to overtake. Normally you'll also find a pedestrian, with a suitcase also trying to scrabble in front of it all. Cars - why bother. £2.40 for 30 mins in the westgate. I cycled the other day from Wolvercote to Cowley Rd, I obeyed all traffic lights etc and did the journey in 20 minutes. I drove the same route, 18 minutes. Then when I arrived I couldn't park! Oxford just doesn't flow, traffic light timings are insane. It's littered with confusing signs and pedestrians just walk in front of cars as if they're invincible. Oxford is a brilliant example of how badly wrong a council can get it. It should stay exactly as it is and serve as a warning to all other cities and councils. Although back to the article - the chaps courier business is a great idea and I have seen this sort of thing at work in Denmark. Good on him. robbo81
  • Score: 8

2:08pm Wed 28 May 14

King Joke says...

THe problem is Robbo, it's a zero-sum game. In a cramped city there is limited space to allocate, so if you pay Paul by putting in a bus lane you rob Peter by taking away road space for cars. If you increase green time on a traffic light, it's increased red time either for the side road or for pedestrians who will eventually give up waiting cross away from the crossing .

Given these conflicts the best thing to do is to allocate space to modes who use it most efficiently, ie the most passengers per sq m of road space. THis will be pedestrians, bus users and cyclists.
THe problem is Robbo, it's a zero-sum game. In a cramped city there is limited space to allocate, so if you pay Paul by putting in a bus lane you rob Peter by taking away road space for cars. If you increase green time on a traffic light, it's increased red time either for the side road or for pedestrians who will eventually give up waiting cross away from the crossing [or just leg it across the road anyway!!]. Given these conflicts the best thing to do is to allocate space to modes who use it most efficiently, ie the most passengers per sq m of road space. THis will be pedestrians, bus users and cyclists. King Joke
  • Score: 10

3:07pm Wed 28 May 14

robbo81 says...

King Joke wrote:
THe problem is Robbo, it's a zero-sum game. In a cramped city there is limited space to allocate, so if you pay Paul by putting in a bus lane you rob Peter by taking away road space for cars. If you increase green time on a traffic light, it's increased red time either for the side road or for pedestrians who will eventually give up waiting cross away from the crossing .

Given these conflicts the best thing to do is to allocate space to modes who use it most efficiently, ie the most passengers per sq m of road space. THis will be pedestrians, bus users and cyclists.
It isn't though KJ. There's so many places in Oxford that could be worked out better. I've mentioned before about St Clems lights. If you come from Morrell Av turn right on to St Clems (facing up the hill) you encounter a green light. That then immediately turns red. But there is no traffic crossing your path, it's green for straight ahead down the hill in to oxford. So why can't it be green for the left turn toward Marston? There's so many points like this in Oxford.

Also it's things like poorly positioned bus stops - again St Clements, there's about 7 bus stops all bunched up. Fine if the buses run to time but as soon as a couple of people don't have correct change then they all begin to bunch up. You then get one bus attempting to overtake 3 parked ones and causing all on-coming traffic to halt, they then get stuck between lights causing havoc and often a cyclist tries to weave through. If they prevented the cars parking on the road through st clems, spaced the bus stops and used an oyster card system then these problems wouldn't occur.

There's so many smaller wins, dare I say 'easier' (i know nothing in public sector is easy) fixes but it always feels like Oxford seems to want some massive scale plan like a total coverage with monorail, the first underground built in the last 100 years or flying cars. Just something totally outside of the realm of fixing things!
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: THe problem is Robbo, it's a zero-sum game. In a cramped city there is limited space to allocate, so if you pay Paul by putting in a bus lane you rob Peter by taking away road space for cars. If you increase green time on a traffic light, it's increased red time either for the side road or for pedestrians who will eventually give up waiting cross away from the crossing [or just leg it across the road anyway!!]. Given these conflicts the best thing to do is to allocate space to modes who use it most efficiently, ie the most passengers per sq m of road space. THis will be pedestrians, bus users and cyclists.[/p][/quote]It isn't though KJ. There's so many places in Oxford that could be worked out better. I've mentioned before about St Clems lights. If you come from Morrell Av turn right on to St Clems (facing up the hill) you encounter a green light. That then immediately turns red. But there is no traffic crossing your path, it's green for straight ahead down the hill in to oxford. So why can't it be green for the left turn toward Marston? There's so many points like this in Oxford. Also it's things like poorly positioned bus stops - again St Clements, there's about 7 bus stops all bunched up. Fine if the buses run to time but as soon as a couple of people don't have correct change then they all begin to bunch up. You then get one bus attempting to overtake 3 parked ones and causing all on-coming traffic to halt, they then get stuck between lights causing havoc and often a cyclist tries to weave through. If they prevented the cars parking on the road through st clems, spaced the bus stops and used an oyster card system then these problems wouldn't occur. There's so many smaller wins, dare I say 'easier' (i know nothing in public sector is easy) fixes but it always feels like Oxford seems to want some massive scale plan like a total coverage with monorail, the first underground built in the last 100 years or flying cars. Just something totally outside of the realm of fixing things! robbo81
  • Score: 0

3:13pm Wed 28 May 14

King Joke says...

Yes, banning all parking on St Clements would make everything flow more smoothly (and with 50+ buses per hour timetabled some of them will always coincide) but as I say, it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. THere would be howls of protest from those losing out. Look what happened when they took a handful of P spaces away on the St Clements car park... traders threatening to close restaurants etc etc.

As for the London Place lights, the left turn onto the Marston Rd probably conflicts with a pedestrian phase... robbing Peter again.
Yes, banning all parking on St Clements would make everything flow more smoothly (and with 50+ buses per hour timetabled some of them will always coincide) but as I say, it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. THere would be howls of protest from those losing out. Look what happened when they took a handful of P spaces away on the St Clements car park... traders threatening to close restaurants etc etc. As for the London Place lights, the left turn onto the Marston Rd probably conflicts with a pedestrian phase... robbing Peter again. King Joke
  • Score: 3

3:21pm Wed 28 May 14

King Joke says...

I didn't mention Oyster Cards - Oyster turns over a few £billion a year of which 14% goes on back office overheads. Oxford's equivalent, the Smart Zone smart card, is adminstered by half an FTE day per month! THe disparity is shown in the limited functionality of Smart Zone and it's relatively low take up. Upgrading it to allow auto-top-up and daily price capping, like Oyster, would increase its take-up greatly. THe target to aim for is the 97% of journeys made on Oyster that is achieved in London.
I didn't mention Oyster Cards - Oyster turns over a few £billion a year of which 14% goes on back office overheads. Oxford's equivalent, the Smart Zone smart card, is adminstered by half an FTE day per month! THe disparity is shown in the limited functionality of Smart Zone and it's relatively low take up. Upgrading it to allow auto-top-up and daily price capping, like Oyster, would increase its take-up greatly. THe target to aim for is the 97% of journeys made on Oyster that is achieved in London. King Joke
  • Score: 8

4:08pm Wed 28 May 14

paddy173 says...

I moved to Oxfordshire in 1996 and I dont really remember crossing the city as being much of a problem until they changed the way traffic ran around Hythe bridge street and Park end st.
Thankfully I only work in Oxford now and then. I would rather Train or Cycle but having to drop off tools and materials requires a van
I moved to Oxfordshire in 1996 and I dont really remember crossing the city as being much of a problem until they changed the way traffic ran around Hythe bridge street and Park end st. Thankfully I only work in Oxford now and then. I would rather Train or Cycle but having to drop off tools and materials requires a van paddy173
  • Score: 7

4:09pm Wed 28 May 14

Az Cowley says...

I enjoy my cycling... I enjoy driving... But i do agree with the article, i don't think there is much more to be done in Oxford to make driving better, its a small conjested city, and if you want to drive then feel free to, but I agree its part of the problem. So many people won't consider other methods of transport, I hate getting a bus myself, and won't if I can cycle... but its not going to get any better, so what is the solution?
I enjoy my cycling... I enjoy driving... But i do agree with the article, i don't think there is much more to be done in Oxford to make driving better, its a small conjested city, and if you want to drive then feel free to, but I agree its part of the problem. So many people won't consider other methods of transport, I hate getting a bus myself, and won't if I can cycle... but its not going to get any better, so what is the solution? Az Cowley
  • Score: 9

4:45pm Wed 28 May 14

thomashenry says...

I know healthy people who drive every day from the town end of Botley road to the offices just beyond Wickes. Sheer laziness.
I know healthy people who drive every day from the town end of Botley road to the offices just beyond Wickes. Sheer laziness. thomashenry
  • Score: 7

6:13pm Wed 28 May 14

H.J.Harris says...

Richard of Wantage wrote:
In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful.
That wouldn't please James, busses are one of the cyclists' greatest enemies.
[quote][p][bold]Richard of Wantage[/bold] wrote: In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful.[/p][/quote]That wouldn't please James, busses are one of the cyclists' greatest enemies. H.J.Harris
  • Score: -8

6:23pm Wed 28 May 14

Madi50n says...

H.J.Harris wrote:
Richard of Wantage wrote:
In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful.
That wouldn't please James, busses are one of the cyclists' greatest enemies.
Not buses, their drivers.
[quote][p][bold]H.J.Harris[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Richard of Wantage[/bold] wrote: In crowded cities the golden age of the car is now gone. Mass public transport is the future, just look at London. Without London underground and the buses, London would grind to a halt and never expand. Oxford needs to plan for a future where public transport is the norm for to be successful.[/p][/quote]That wouldn't please James, busses are one of the cyclists' greatest enemies.[/p][/quote]Not buses, their drivers. Madi50n
  • Score: 3

6:28pm Thu 29 May 14

the wizard says...

The whole thing is Oxford, its County and City councils have not moved with the times and provided Oxford with a working alternative footprint for the future at any time since the end of hostilities in the 1940's. Rafts of Councillors are guilty of lack of vision and foresight over the decades. Once the ring road was built inner city demands should have been tackled and sorted before all the available land was built on. The issues surrounding Abingdon, Woodstock , Banbury, Iffley, Botley and Cowley roads have never been addressed, its always been a quick repainting of lines as if that is the definitive solution, which it never has been. Unless somebody new with vision comes in and takes on these issues head-on, nothing will ever change in the magnitude needed to provide long lasting solutions. Somebody, dynamic, hard headed and totally focused on providing for the future is needed, and the duffers who are employed right now need to be moved on, very harshly, because if they were employed outside of the councils they would have been sacked long ago. Incompetent doesn't come close.
The whole thing is Oxford, its County and City councils have not moved with the times and provided Oxford with a working alternative footprint for the future at any time since the end of hostilities in the 1940's. Rafts of Councillors are guilty of lack of vision and foresight over the decades. Once the ring road was built inner city demands should have been tackled and sorted before all the available land was built on. The issues surrounding Abingdon, Woodstock , Banbury, Iffley, Botley and Cowley roads have never been addressed, its always been a quick repainting of lines as if that is the definitive solution, which it never has been. Unless somebody new with vision comes in and takes on these issues head-on, nothing will ever change in the magnitude needed to provide long lasting solutions. Somebody, dynamic, hard headed and totally focused on providing for the future is needed, and the duffers who are employed right now need to be moved on, very harshly, because if they were employed outside of the councils they would have been sacked long ago. Incompetent doesn't come close. the wizard
  • Score: 0

7:48am Fri 30 May 14

King Joke says...

And what 'solutions' might these be Wizard?

Plenty of towns spent the 1960s and 70s knocking down perfectly good housing and historic buildings to allow for dual carriageway radial and ring roads. It made for a hideous environment and guess what? It didn't work. These places still have traffic jams.
And what 'solutions' might these be Wizard? Plenty of towns spent the 1960s and 70s knocking down perfectly good housing and historic buildings to allow for dual carriageway radial and ring roads. It made for a hideous environment and guess what? It didn't work. These places still have traffic jams. King Joke
  • Score: 1

9:12am Fri 30 May 14

the wizard says...

King Joke wrote:
And what 'solutions' might these be Wizard?

Plenty of towns spent the 1960s and 70s knocking down perfectly good housing and historic buildings to allow for dual carriageway radial and ring roads. It made for a hideous environment and guess what? It didn't work. These places still have traffic jams.
One much needed measure is the relocation of the railway station onto the Oxpens with a provision for a link up to future light rail /tram system and bus station. Secondly a link up over the south side of the Botley Road running from the Oxpens area all the way down towards Seacourt therefore taking the pressure off the Botley road and for it to incorporate a link straight out onto the A34 with at the City end car parks with bus links into the centre with drop off points close to walkways into the City Centre. More use of trams in and around the centre to keep buses out using the system now widely employed in places such as Nottingham with out the need for overhead wires. Better management of services provided for bikes, but a ban on bikes in the centre itself. A service hub on the ringroad for smaller deliveries, so smaller vehicles could then be deployed in to the centre at certain times. Night time deliveries to the larger stores therefore keeping trucks out of the centre during peak .periods. I don't have a map to hand showing detail of the late 1940's through to the fifties but no doubt further measures could have been taken, and a more rigidly enforced plan then would have done away with many of the problems we have now and most now would have grown up with the measures in place so they would not be seen as a problem.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: And what 'solutions' might these be Wizard? Plenty of towns spent the 1960s and 70s knocking down perfectly good housing and historic buildings to allow for dual carriageway radial and ring roads. It made for a hideous environment and guess what? It didn't work. These places still have traffic jams.[/p][/quote]One much needed measure is the relocation of the railway station onto the Oxpens with a provision for a link up to future light rail /tram system and bus station. Secondly a link up over the south side of the Botley Road running from the Oxpens area all the way down towards Seacourt therefore taking the pressure off the Botley road and for it to incorporate a link straight out onto the A34 with at the City end car parks with bus links into the centre with drop off points close to walkways into the City Centre. More use of trams in and around the centre to keep buses out using the system now widely employed in places such as Nottingham with out the need for overhead wires. Better management of services provided for bikes, but a ban on bikes in the centre itself. A service hub on the ringroad for smaller deliveries, so smaller vehicles could then be deployed in to the centre at certain times. Night time deliveries to the larger stores therefore keeping trucks out of the centre during peak .periods. I don't have a map to hand showing detail of the late 1940's through to the fifties but no doubt further measures could have been taken, and a more rigidly enforced plan then would have done away with many of the problems we have now and most now would have grown up with the measures in place so they would not be seen as a problem. the wizard
  • Score: -1

3:16am Sat 31 May 14

The New Private Eye says...

To be honest I fail to see his (and all other cyclists) point. I choose to drive because, I am comfortable, can listen to the radio or my music through a mega sound system, can smoke and imbibe, be warm in winter and cool in summer, chat with my loved ones (hands free of course) and arrive at my destination totally refreshed. So what if I have a delay on the way to my destination. I always arrive there refreshed and ready for what the day has in store for me. Unlike cyclists that arrive either soaked through, or hot and sweaty and full of angst. Live and let live I say.
To be honest I fail to see his (and all other cyclists) point. I choose to drive because, I am comfortable, can listen to the radio or my music through a mega sound system, can smoke and imbibe, be warm in winter and cool in summer, chat with my loved ones (hands free of course) and arrive at my destination totally refreshed. So what if I have a delay on the way to my destination. I always arrive there refreshed and ready for what the day has in store for me. Unlike cyclists that arrive either soaked through, or hot and sweaty and full of angst. Live and let live I say. The New Private Eye
  • Score: -4

3:23am Sat 31 May 14

The New Private Eye says...

King Joke wrote:
I didn't mention Oyster Cards - Oyster turns over a few £billion a year of which 14% goes on back office overheads. Oxford's equivalent, the Smart Zone smart card, is adminstered by half an FTE day per month! THe disparity is shown in the limited functionality of Smart Zone and it's relatively low take up. Upgrading it to allow auto-top-up and daily price capping, like Oyster, would increase its take-up greatly. THe target to aim for is the 97% of journeys made on Oyster that is achieved in London.
Well off the mark KJ. The Oyster in London only has the take up because a single journey of one stop is now £4. But to be honest I would love that pricing structure in Oxford. It would then show the rip off prices of multi-national conglomerate transport in Oxford, although after midnight we are almost at those prices.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: I didn't mention Oyster Cards - Oyster turns over a few £billion a year of which 14% goes on back office overheads. Oxford's equivalent, the Smart Zone smart card, is adminstered by half an FTE day per month! THe disparity is shown in the limited functionality of Smart Zone and it's relatively low take up. Upgrading it to allow auto-top-up and daily price capping, like Oyster, would increase its take-up greatly. THe target to aim for is the 97% of journeys made on Oyster that is achieved in London.[/p][/quote]Well off the mark KJ. The Oyster in London only has the take up because a single journey of one stop is now £4. But to be honest I would love that pricing structure in Oxford. It would then show the rip off prices of multi-national conglomerate transport in Oxford, although after midnight we are almost at those prices. The New Private Eye
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Sat 31 May 14

Amazinganman says...

Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.
Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead. Amazinganman
  • Score: -1

2:53pm Sat 31 May 14

museli says...

Amazinganman wrote:
Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.
Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre?
[quote][p][bold]Amazinganman[/bold] wrote: Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.[/p][/quote]Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre? museli
  • Score: 0

4:13pm Sat 31 May 14

King Joke says...

museli wrote:
Amazinganman wrote:
Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.
Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre?
Exactly Muesli - Oxford city centre is so busy these days it's difficult to move for all the people. Whatever the vagaries of the transport system (and it works fine for me except all the cars slow it down) it is certainly succeeding in shifting huge volumes of people into the main shopping area.

Wizard, your system sounds impressive but would cost £billions. Also why encourage people to drive to the city centre periphery and then get a bus? Shouldn't we encourage some of them to start their bus journey further out, at a remote P&R, or preferably from their own suburb or town? Many residential areas in the County towns have direct buses to Oxford. You could achieve more of this with a few tens of £m on bus lanes and light rail for the busiest routes.

Private Eye, Oyster in London is popular because of its convenience. You never need to top it up if you set up auto-top up, and capping means you can use it once in a day, or ten times, but you'll always be charged the cheapest option. Your circular argument 'if bus fares were £4 it would show what a rip off they are, even though they aren't £4' is ridiculous.
[quote][p][bold]museli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Amazinganman[/bold] wrote: Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.[/p][/quote]Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre?[/p][/quote]Exactly Muesli - Oxford city centre is so busy these days it's difficult to move for all the people. Whatever the vagaries of the transport system (and it works fine for me except all the cars slow it down) it is certainly succeeding in shifting huge volumes of people into the main shopping area. Wizard, your system sounds impressive but would cost £billions. Also why encourage people to drive to the city centre periphery and then get a bus? Shouldn't we encourage some of them to start their bus journey further out, at a remote P&R, or preferably from their own suburb or town? Many residential areas in the County towns have direct buses to Oxford. You could achieve more of this with a few tens of £m on bus lanes and light rail for the busiest routes. Private Eye, Oyster in London is popular because of its convenience. You never need to top it up if you set up auto-top up, and capping means you can use it once in a day, or ten times, but you'll always be charged the cheapest option. Your circular argument 'if bus fares were £4 it would show what a rip off they are, even though they aren't £4' is ridiculous. King Joke
  • Score: 0

12:00am Sun 1 Jun 14

the wizard says...

King Joke wrote:
museli wrote:
Amazinganman wrote:
Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.
Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre?
Exactly Muesli - Oxford city centre is so busy these days it's difficult to move for all the people. Whatever the vagaries of the transport system (and it works fine for me except all the cars slow it down) it is certainly succeeding in shifting huge volumes of people into the main shopping area.

Wizard, your system sounds impressive but would cost £billions. Also why encourage people to drive to the city centre periphery and then get a bus? Shouldn't we encourage some of them to start their bus journey further out, at a remote P&R, or preferably from their own suburb or town? Many residential areas in the County towns have direct buses to Oxford. You could achieve more of this with a few tens of £m on bus lanes and light rail for the busiest routes.

Private Eye, Oyster in London is popular because of its convenience. You never need to top it up if you set up auto-top up, and capping means you can use it once in a day, or ten times, but you'll always be charged the cheapest option. Your circular argument 'if bus fares were £4 it would show what a rip off they are, even though they aren't £4' is ridiculous.
King Joke, yes it may cost a lot now, agreed, but my point is the various bodies have failed their public by not acting earlier and having a complete divorced from reality approach for far too long in years gone by, which has led us into our present predicament.. Had they acted in a manner befitting their role, councils various could have put Oxford to the fore, instead they squirreled money away in various funds which have basically seen the worth diminished/eroded while they could have enhanced the City as a whole and the whole infra structure around it by acting in a progressive manner in the years gone by. Instead they have sat on their bits and done nothing thinking all was well and rosy in the garden. Pathetic. Had they been employed in the private sector I would suggest they would have been sacked for gross incompetence and dereliction of duty.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]museli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Amazinganman[/bold] wrote: Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.[/p][/quote]Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre?[/p][/quote]Exactly Muesli - Oxford city centre is so busy these days it's difficult to move for all the people. Whatever the vagaries of the transport system (and it works fine for me except all the cars slow it down) it is certainly succeeding in shifting huge volumes of people into the main shopping area. Wizard, your system sounds impressive but would cost £billions. Also why encourage people to drive to the city centre periphery and then get a bus? Shouldn't we encourage some of them to start their bus journey further out, at a remote P&R, or preferably from their own suburb or town? Many residential areas in the County towns have direct buses to Oxford. You could achieve more of this with a few tens of £m on bus lanes and light rail for the busiest routes. Private Eye, Oyster in London is popular because of its convenience. You never need to top it up if you set up auto-top up, and capping means you can use it once in a day, or ten times, but you'll always be charged the cheapest option. Your circular argument 'if bus fares were £4 it would show what a rip off they are, even though they aren't £4' is ridiculous.[/p][/quote]King Joke, yes it may cost a lot now, agreed, but my point is the various bodies have failed their public by not acting earlier and having a complete divorced from reality approach for far too long in years gone by, which has led us into our present predicament.. Had they acted in a manner befitting their role, councils various could have put Oxford to the fore, instead they squirreled money away in various funds which have basically seen the worth diminished/eroded while they could have enhanced the City as a whole and the whole infra structure around it by acting in a progressive manner in the years gone by. Instead they have sat on their bits and done nothing thinking all was well and rosy in the garden. Pathetic. Had they been employed in the private sector I would suggest they would have been sacked for gross incompetence and dereliction of duty. the wizard
  • Score: 0

2:22pm Sun 1 Jun 14

The New Private Eye says...

King Joke wrote:
museli wrote:
Amazinganman wrote:
Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.
Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre?
Exactly Muesli - Oxford city centre is so busy these days it's difficult to move for all the people. Whatever the vagaries of the transport system (and it works fine for me except all the cars slow it down) it is certainly succeeding in shifting huge volumes of people into the main shopping area.

Wizard, your system sounds impressive but would cost £billions. Also why encourage people to drive to the city centre periphery and then get a bus? Shouldn't we encourage some of them to start their bus journey further out, at a remote P&R, or preferably from their own suburb or town? Many residential areas in the County towns have direct buses to Oxford. You could achieve more of this with a few tens of £m on bus lanes and light rail for the busiest routes.

Private Eye, Oyster in London is popular because of its convenience. You never need to top it up if you set up auto-top up, and capping means you can use it once in a day, or ten times, but you'll always be charged the cheapest option. Your circular argument 'if bus fares were £4 it would show what a rip off they are, even though they aren't £4' is ridiculous.
They may not be £4 but £3 for one stop after midnight is not far off. Bus fares in Oxford have gone out of control since the companies stopped competing and allegedly agreed to set their fares at the highest rate possible, with an average 2 fare increases a year over the past ten years. Do not forget that it was not that long ago before the fare "agreement" that a London return was £2.97 and Heathrow £9, now look at the fares. Sadly we are now stuck with the rip off fares for life because any new operator trying their luck in Oxford would be bankrupted by Ox Bus and Stagecoach. We all know that you have a vested interest in the buses in Oxford, but not even you could defend the prices charged here, especially when it is taxpayers money in the £millions that the bus companies have been given to update their fleet.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]museli[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Amazinganman[/bold] wrote: Oxford or the Dead Zone as I have seen it become..if people didn't have to come into Oxford in a car they would choose not to, notice the word choose the more people like James put their oar in the more Oxford turns to a ghost town..Example easier if shopping to go out of town or to the cities that have better options and a better atmosphere. taking away freedom of choice is no freedom at all. Oxford has come to a point that even with investment and improvement other towns and cities are light years ahead.[/p][/quote]Only someone who has not bothered to look round central Oxford in the last decade could come out with such drivel! Oxford centre continues to be very busy despite the traffic and pollution problems. So how many empty shops are there in Oxford city centre?[/p][/quote]Exactly Muesli - Oxford city centre is so busy these days it's difficult to move for all the people. Whatever the vagaries of the transport system (and it works fine for me except all the cars slow it down) it is certainly succeeding in shifting huge volumes of people into the main shopping area. Wizard, your system sounds impressive but would cost £billions. Also why encourage people to drive to the city centre periphery and then get a bus? Shouldn't we encourage some of them to start their bus journey further out, at a remote P&R, or preferably from their own suburb or town? Many residential areas in the County towns have direct buses to Oxford. You could achieve more of this with a few tens of £m on bus lanes and light rail for the busiest routes. Private Eye, Oyster in London is popular because of its convenience. You never need to top it up if you set up auto-top up, and capping means you can use it once in a day, or ten times, but you'll always be charged the cheapest option. Your circular argument 'if bus fares were £4 it would show what a rip off they are, even though they aren't £4' is ridiculous.[/p][/quote]They may not be £4 but £3 for one stop after midnight is not far off. Bus fares in Oxford have gone out of control since the companies stopped competing and allegedly agreed to set their fares at the highest rate possible, with an average 2 fare increases a year over the past ten years. Do not forget that it was not that long ago before the fare "agreement" that a London return was £2.97 and Heathrow £9, now look at the fares. Sadly we are now stuck with the rip off fares for life because any new operator trying their luck in Oxford would be bankrupted by Ox Bus and Stagecoach. We all know that you have a vested interest in the buses in Oxford, but not even you could defend the prices charged here, especially when it is taxpayers money in the £millions that the bus companies have been given to update their fleet. The New Private Eye
  • Score: 0

3:42pm Sun 1 Jun 14

King Joke says...

I pay £3.10/day for as many bus journeys as I like, and I don't have to travel every day to use the smart card. It seems very reasonable to me. Choosing the most expensive possible fare, after midnight, is a poor way to frame your argument.

The real step change in fare levels came in when BMW brought Mini production to Oxford in around 2000-2001, and started poaching bus drivers in their droves. Clearly the 30p short-hop fare was doomed as soon as the bus companies had to compete with BMW wages.

I think you'll find single cash fares are high across the country, in areas where provision is at a fraction of the highly intensive service we get in Oxford, driven by the low reimbursement rates on pensioners' concessionary fares, whereas day tickets and smart card products are quite reasonable.
I pay £3.10/day for as many bus journeys as I like, and I don't have to travel every day to use the smart card. It seems very reasonable to me. Choosing the most expensive possible fare, after midnight, is a poor way to frame your argument. The real step change in fare levels came in when BMW brought Mini production to Oxford in around 2000-2001, and started poaching bus drivers in their droves. Clearly the 30p short-hop fare was doomed as soon as the bus companies had to compete with BMW wages. I think you'll find single cash fares are high across the country, in areas where provision is at a fraction of the highly intensive service we get in Oxford, driven by the low reimbursement rates on pensioners' concessionary fares, whereas day tickets and smart card products are quite reasonable. King Joke
  • Score: 0

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