On Yer Bike: 'You can never be too careful around trucks'

Oxford Mail: James Styring James Styring

THE spate of cyclist deaths in London in November has been the talk of the town here too.

There was shock and disbelief as news of five cyclists being killed within 10 days sent shockwaves. News of a sixth death, all six within a fortnight, caused panic.

A BBC survey found one in five London cyclists had stopped cycling to work as a result, and 70 per cent felt cycling in London was unsafe.

The Mayor’s cycling commissioner Andrew Gilligan accused the press of scaremongering, with evidence that over the whole year, cycling was no more dangerous than any recent years. Boris Johnson was condemned for appearing to blame the victims, before doing a U-turn and saying he was not adverse to a rush-hour ban on HGVs in London.

This acknowledges the fact that although HGVs represent less than five per cent of London’s road traffic, they account for the deaths of more than 90 per cent of cyclists killed on the capital’s roads.

This statistic is mirrored in Oxfordshire, where the vast majority of cyclists that have died were run over by HGVs.

The month ended with thousands of traffic police posted at key junctions fining cyclists and drivers alike for traffic transgressions – keen to be seen to be even-handed.

I was surprised to read that half of all HGV drivers stopped were ticked off for having non-functioning safety equipment on their truck, but happy to see cyclists fined for riding without lights in the dark.

It all backfired though when it transpired that the police were also pulling people over for not wearing helmets and not wearing hi-visibility clothing.

I’m all for law enforcement and I do tend to wear hi-viz and a helmet with a flashing light when I ride in London, or even in Oxford at dusk. But then I ride fast and I tend to pass stationary or slow-moving vehicles along the dotted white line, a habit I developed when I used to ride motorbikes in my 20s and it’s one that’s stuck.

I want and need to be seen, but I completely sympathise with the majority of cyclists who don’t want to wear a helmet or ride lit up like a Christmas decoration. We don’t expect pedestrians, whose crash-rates with vehicles are the same as those for cyclists by the way, to wear hard hats or lurid clothes.

The main thing to take away from all of this is that cyclists can never be too careful around trucks and buses. Never cycle up the nearside (i.e., kerbside) of a truck or a bus.

The nearside is the deadly side of an HGV because they have a big bike-sized blindspot there. When trucks (especially) start to move right at a junction, steer well clear. They could well be pulling out so they can turn left.

And take heart – there have been zero cycling deaths in December either in Oxon or the capital.

Comments (50)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

10:06am Tue 10 Dec 13

Bart_simpsonDoh says...

If you want to feel safe, I would rather be lit up like a christmas tree than expect ,like cyclists do, that everyone should be able to see me even if I am dressed in black and have no lights on.
If you want to feel safe, I would rather be lit up like a christmas tree than expect ,like cyclists do, that everyone should be able to see me even if I am dressed in black and have no lights on. Bart_simpsonDoh

11:58am Tue 10 Dec 13

Sandy Wimpole-Smythe says...

Here's a message for some cyclists, stop cycling along the Marston Ferry Road use the bloody cycle lane it's big enough for you, your bike and your egos.
Here's a message for some cyclists, stop cycling along the Marston Ferry Road use the bloody cycle lane it's big enough for you, your bike and your egos. Sandy Wimpole-Smythe

12:06pm Tue 10 Dec 13

museli says...

Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day!
Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day! museli

12:14pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Sandy Wimpole-Smythe says...

museli wrote:
Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day!
Not a cycle hater would just prefer not to be responsible for running one over when they are wobbling along a road where there is a perfectly good cycle lane.
[quote][p][bold]museli[/bold] wrote: Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day![/p][/quote]Not a cycle hater would just prefer not to be responsible for running one over when they are wobbling along a road where there is a perfectly good cycle lane. Sandy Wimpole-Smythe

12:23pm Tue 10 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Sandy Wimpole-Smythe wrote:
museli wrote: Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day!
Not a cycle hater would just prefer not to be responsible for running one over when they are wobbling along a road where there is a perfectly good cycle lane.
THe Marston Ferry Rd is one of the very few in the city with a fully segregated cycle path off the road. Presumably you drive along other roads, where there is no such facility, so how do you avoid running cyclists over where there is no cycle lane and you find cyclists quite legally cycling on the main carriageway?
[quote][p][bold]Sandy Wimpole-Smythe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]museli[/bold] wrote: Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day![/p][/quote]Not a cycle hater would just prefer not to be responsible for running one over when they are wobbling along a road where there is a perfectly good cycle lane.[/p][/quote]THe Marston Ferry Rd is one of the very few in the city with a fully segregated cycle path off the road. Presumably you drive along other roads, where there is no such facility, so how do you avoid running cyclists over where there is no cycle lane and you find cyclists quite legally cycling on the main carriageway? King Joke

12:24pm Tue 10 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Sandy Wimpole-Smythe wrote:
museli wrote: Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day!
Not a cycle hater would just prefer not to be responsible for running one over when they are wobbling along a road where there is a perfectly good cycle lane.
THe Marston Ferry Rd is one of the very few in the city with a fully segregated cycle path off the road. Presumably you drive along other roads, where there is no such facility, so how do you avoid running cyclists over where there is no cycle lane and you find cyclists quite legally cycling on the main carriageway?
[quote][p][bold]Sandy Wimpole-Smythe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]museli[/bold] wrote: Here we go then - a sensible article on cycling and the pathetic cycle haters have arrived already like flies to a dog turd on a hot, sunny day![/p][/quote]Not a cycle hater would just prefer not to be responsible for running one over when they are wobbling along a road where there is a perfectly good cycle lane.[/p][/quote]THe Marston Ferry Rd is one of the very few in the city with a fully segregated cycle path off the road. Presumably you drive along other roads, where there is no such facility, so how do you avoid running cyclists over where there is no cycle lane and you find cyclists quite legally cycling on the main carriageway? King Joke

12:29pm Tue 10 Dec 13

BigAlBiker says...

The A40 from the BMW garage to Witney has cycle lanes both side of the road, yet still some "Tour de France" riders still cycle on the road, crazy.
The A40 from the BMW garage to Witney has cycle lanes both side of the road, yet still some "Tour de France" riders still cycle on the road, crazy. BigAlBiker

12:34pm Tue 10 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Why is this crazy? The road is wide enough being a 40' arterial road, it is dead straight for good visibility and the serious cyclists tend to light themselves up properly.

I've never done that bit of cycle lane, I use the Eynsham Road, but if it's anything like the piece of s h i t path alongside the A44 going up to Woodstock, it will be bumpy as hell, liberally sprinkled with broken glass/fallen branches and will have no priority at any house/farm/garage entrance.

You wouldn't ride your motorbike up such rubbish, and I won't ride my bike up it.
Why is this crazy? The road is wide enough being a 40' arterial road, it is dead straight for good visibility and the serious cyclists tend to light themselves up properly. I've never done that bit of cycle lane, I use the Eynsham Road, but if it's anything like the piece of s h i t path alongside the A44 going up to Woodstock, it will be bumpy as hell, liberally sprinkled with broken glass/fallen branches and will have no priority at any house/farm/garage entrance. You wouldn't ride your motorbike up such rubbish, and I won't ride my bike up it. King Joke

1:11pm Tue 10 Dec 13

grandconjuration says...

Cyclist-haters. It must be tough to remember all of the things you hate about cyclists, so please use this checklist so you don't miss any of the major points.

Make sure to mention that ALL cyclists do some or all of the following. Choosing contradictory and inaccurate points in fine.

Run red lights.
Don't pay road tax.
Should ride on the pavement, not roads.
Ride on the pavement.
They think they own the road.
Roads are for cars, not for bicycles.
Don't have insurance.
Ride too slow.
Ride too fast.
Ride two abreast, illegally.
Don't use bells.
Expect us to jump out of the way when they ring their bell.
Don't ride in bike lanes provided at our expense.
Clad in Lycra.
Wear garish colours.
Wear dark clothes.
Can't afford a car.
Ride expensive bikes.
Wear silly-looking headgear.
Don't wear helmets.
Don't ride with lights.
Dazzle with flashing lights.
Wear high vis.
Don't wear high vis.
Cause most collisions on the roads.
Kill themselves by riding on cycle lanes alongside HGVs.
Wear headphones.
Smug because they think they are saving the planet.
Are dangerous.
Ride in the middle of the road.
Cause pollution by slowing down traffic.
They think they are in the Tour de France.
Never indicate.
Ride without both hands on the handlebars.
Cycling is for children, not adults.
Children shouldn't be allowed to cycle on the roads.

That should make it easier for you and I see that you've ticked off a few already.

(List adapted from an article by cycling advocate Carlton Reid.)
Cyclist-haters. It must be tough to remember all of the things you hate about cyclists, so please use this checklist so you don't miss any of the major points. Make sure to mention that ALL cyclists do some or all of the following. Choosing contradictory and inaccurate points in fine. Run red lights. Don't pay road tax. Should ride on the pavement, not roads. Ride on the pavement. They think they own the road. Roads are for cars, not for bicycles. Don't have insurance. Ride too slow. Ride too fast. Ride two abreast, illegally. Don't use bells. Expect us to jump out of the way when they ring their bell. Don't ride in bike lanes provided at our expense. Clad in Lycra. Wear garish colours. Wear dark clothes. Can't afford a car. Ride expensive bikes. Wear silly-looking headgear. Don't wear helmets. Don't ride with lights. Dazzle with flashing lights. Wear high vis. Don't wear high vis. Cause most collisions on the roads. Kill themselves by riding on cycle lanes alongside HGVs. Wear headphones. Smug because they think they are saving the planet. Are dangerous. Ride in the middle of the road. Cause pollution by slowing down traffic. They think they are in the Tour de France. Never indicate. Ride without both hands on the handlebars. Cycling is for children, not adults. Children shouldn't be allowed to cycle on the roads. That should make it easier for you and I see that you've ticked off a few already. (List adapted from an article by cycling advocate Carlton Reid.) grandconjuration

1:16pm Tue 10 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Back on topic, the feller in the story is spot on about lorries and buses. I never EVER go up the inside of either.

To be honest, unless there is a clearly-marked cycle lane it's unwise to go up the inside of any vehicle. A stationary car could suddenly decide to turn left, pull in and park, or let a passenger out of the nearside door.
Back on topic, the feller in the story is spot on about lorries and buses. I never EVER go up the inside of either. To be honest, unless there is a clearly-marked cycle lane it's unwise to go up the inside of any vehicle. A stationary car could suddenly decide to turn left, pull in and park, or let a passenger out of the nearside door. King Joke

7:15pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Dilligaf2010 says...

If you can't see a driver's mirror, he can't see you, no matter whether you're dressed like a Ninja, or a Christmas tree, any cyclist that doesn't adhere to that simple rule, deserved to be road kill.
If you can't see a driver's mirror, he can't see you, no matter whether you're dressed like a Ninja, or a Christmas tree, any cyclist that doesn't adhere to that simple rule, deserved to be road kill. Dilligaf2010

7:21pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Big red bus says...

Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you ,
Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess
Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you , Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess Big red bus

10:10pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Floflo says...

Sandy Wimpole-Smythe wrote:
Here's a message for some cyclists, stop cycling along the Marston Ferry Road use the bloody cycle lane it's big enough for you, your bike and your egos.
Similarly, a message for some drivers. When children are using the path to walk to school this cycle path becomes difficult to use. Children are unpredictable so a cyclist may choose to use the road.

The bushes along the side of this track are scary at dark. Anyone could be lurking in them so the road may well be safer to cycle down.

Some drivers don't even understand that when it's below freezing only roads are clear. Cycle paths remain covered with ice, even fallen leaves can cause problems.

In short - share the road please, regardless of if there is a cycle path near by.
[quote][p][bold]Sandy Wimpole-Smythe[/bold] wrote: Here's a message for some cyclists, stop cycling along the Marston Ferry Road use the bloody cycle lane it's big enough for you, your bike and your egos.[/p][/quote]Similarly, a message for some drivers. When children are using the path to walk to school this cycle path becomes difficult to use. Children are unpredictable so a cyclist may choose to use the road. The bushes along the side of this track are scary at dark. Anyone could be lurking in them so the road may well be safer to cycle down. Some drivers don't even understand that when it's below freezing only roads are clear. Cycle paths remain covered with ice, even fallen leaves can cause problems. In short - share the road please, regardless of if there is a cycle path near by. Floflo

8:28am Wed 11 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
If you can't see a driver's mirror, he can't see you, no matter whether you're dressed like a Ninja, or a Christmas tree, any cyclist that doesn't adhere to that simple rule, deserved to be road kill.
Addtionally: even if you can see a vehicle's mirrors don't assume its occupants can see you.

Lorry and bus drivers tend to check side mirrors, left and right; it's what they're trained to do, and with no centre mirror they rely on the side ones a lot more.

Car occupants on the other hand are a different story. While they're used to checking their offside door mirror and their driving mirror, the nearside door mirror is another matter, and a passenger opening a nearside door is very, very unlikely to have checked the nearside mirror.

And there's more: rear passengers on either side can open a door at any time and are also very, very unlikely to have checked for bikes.

And there's even more: even on the offside of a car, if you're alongside any point forward of the C-pillar you can't be seen in the car's door mirro by the driver.

And there's more still: parked cars' offside doors can open at any time, so never ever cycle closer to parked cars than the width of an open door.

In short: don't ride into areas where you can't be seen, or won't be seen by negligently stupid people, and you will be less likely to have an accident.
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: If you can't see a driver's mirror, he can't see you, no matter whether you're dressed like a Ninja, or a Christmas tree, any cyclist that doesn't adhere to that simple rule, deserved to be road kill.[/p][/quote]Addtionally: even if you can see a vehicle's mirrors don't assume its occupants can see you. Lorry and bus drivers tend to check side mirrors, left and right; it's what they're trained to do, and with no centre mirror they rely on the side ones a lot more. Car occupants on the other hand are a different story. While they're used to checking their offside door mirror and their driving mirror, the nearside door mirror is another matter, and a passenger opening a nearside door is very, very unlikely to have checked the nearside mirror. And there's more: rear passengers on either side can open a door at any time and are also very, very unlikely to have checked for bikes. And there's even more: even on the offside of a car, if you're alongside any point forward of the C-pillar you can't be seen in the car's door mirro by the driver. And there's more still: parked cars' offside doors can open at any time, so never ever cycle closer to parked cars than the width of an open door. In short: don't ride into areas where you can't be seen, or won't be seen by negligently stupid people, and you will be less likely to have an accident. King Joke

11:48am Wed 11 Dec 13

Big red bus says...

Big red bus wrote:
Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you ,
Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess
-181 wow upset some cyclists better then killing them ?
[quote][p][bold]Big red bus[/bold] wrote: Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you , Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess[/p][/quote]-181 wow upset some cyclists better then killing them ? Big red bus

12:46pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Summeroli says...

I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!!

Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on.

With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!!

There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training!

I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States.
I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!! Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on. With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!! There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training! I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States. Summeroli

12:47pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Bladder says...

There is one thing essential that you need to be able to drive,cycle or walk and that is common sense.
For a city that has so many academics with all sorts of degrees it seems that common sence is not one of them.
There is one thing essential that you need to be able to drive,cycle or walk and that is common sense. For a city that has so many academics with all sorts of degrees it seems that common sence is not one of them. Bladder

1:03pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Blokster says...

"..but I completely sympathise with the majority of cyclists who don’t want to wear a helmet or ride lit up like a Christmas decoration. We don’t expect pedestrians, whose crash-rates with vehicles are the same as those for cyclists by the way, to wear hard hats or lurid clothes."

This is one of the most moronic sentences I have ever read in the Oxford Mail. Just drive in a car at night along the Iffley or Cowley Roads at night and see if you can see the cyclists with no lights. All you East Oxford dumb car/people haters are missing the simple message that if you wear a high-viz jacket and powerful lights this will increase your chances of being seen by us reactionary right wing gas guzzling capitalist swine.
"..but I completely sympathise with the majority of cyclists who don’t want to wear a helmet or ride lit up like a Christmas decoration. We don’t expect pedestrians, whose crash-rates with vehicles are the same as those for cyclists by the way, to wear hard hats or lurid clothes." This is one of the most moronic sentences I have ever read in the Oxford Mail. Just drive in a car at night along the Iffley or Cowley Roads at night and see if you can see the cyclists with no lights. All you East Oxford dumb car/people haters are missing the simple message that if you wear a high-viz jacket and powerful lights this will increase your chances of being seen by us reactionary right wing gas guzzling capitalist swine. Blokster

1:09pm Wed 11 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Blokster, accident rates are equally high among pedestrians, so should they be wearing high-vis clothing and helmets too?

Incidentally, head injuries among car occupants are as high as they are among cyclists, maybe helmets should be compulsory inside cars as well?
Blokster, accident rates are equally high among pedestrians, so should they be wearing high-vis clothing and helmets too? Incidentally, head injuries among car occupants are as high as they are among cyclists, maybe helmets should be compulsory inside cars as well? King Joke

1:13pm Wed 11 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Summeroli wrote:
I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!! Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on. With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!! There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training! I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States.
You're very keen on Britishness, Oli, but struggle with elementary English grammar. Are you sure it is your first language?

Anyway, to get back on the topic, it appears you admit there are terrible car drivers out there, as well as terrible cyclists. Sadly idiocy is commonplace, so the only safe course of action for anybody using our roads is to be careful, considerate and slow to avoid collisions.
[quote][p][bold]Summeroli[/bold] wrote: I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!! Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on. With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!! There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training! I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States.[/p][/quote]You're very keen on Britishness, Oli, but struggle with elementary English grammar. Are you sure it is your first language? Anyway, to get back on the topic, it appears you admit there are terrible car drivers out there, as well as terrible cyclists. Sadly idiocy is commonplace, so the only safe course of action for anybody using our roads is to be careful, considerate and slow to avoid collisions. King Joke

1:27pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

I do wish the anti-cyclist brigade would get some things straight before posting the usual drivel.

1. They are called "public" highways and paid for by general taxation. Therefore Cyclists contribute towards them so have the right to use them.

2. One study showed 68% of accidents were caused by motorists, 20% by cyclists (see link) so by the "cyclists should have to pass a test, carry insurance, have licence plates and pay VED" logic, as motorists already have to do all of those things and are still causing 2 thirds of accidents, how is that supposed to make cyclists better and safer?

http://www.thetimes.
co.uk/tto/public/cyc
lesafety/article3758
677.ece

3. Saying someone deserves to die Dilligaf2010? Really? You do know that's a human being you are casually saying should die for doing something you don't like. Someone's father, mother, sister, brother, son or daughter. Do you really think they "Deserve" to die?

4. I really wish cyclists would get off their bikes and into their cars (83% of cyclists are car owners) for a month, and then Oxford would see just how bad traffic would be. Cyclists free up space on the roads, cause less damage to the surface and use no fuel so the stuff that's running out lasts a little bit longer.

5. There are reports every single week in this newspaper/website of deaths caused by cars, motorbikes & trucks hitting each other, pedestrians, cyclists, there is never any comment on those stories even though it is obvious from the statistics that drivers cause thousands of deaths every year through careless or dangerous driving; one story comes on, pointing out how cyclists could improve their safety and here you all are, spouting the same old rubbish, blaming the victims for their actions.

6 Drivers of any motor vehicle have a responsibility to do so carefully, and considerately, because otherwise they kill people. If you don't want to drive in a manner that is both responsible and considerate then I suggest you are the problem.
I do wish the anti-cyclist brigade would get some things straight before posting the usual drivel. 1. They are called "public" highways and paid for by general taxation. Therefore Cyclists contribute towards them so have the right to use them. 2. One study showed 68% of accidents were caused by motorists, 20% by cyclists (see link) so by the "cyclists should have to pass a test, carry insurance, have licence plates and pay VED" logic, as motorists already have to do all of those things and are still causing 2 thirds of accidents, how is that supposed to make cyclists better and safer? http://www.thetimes. co.uk/tto/public/cyc lesafety/article3758 677.ece 3. Saying someone deserves to die Dilligaf2010? Really? You do know that's a human being you are casually saying should die for doing something you don't like. Someone's father, mother, sister, brother, son or daughter. Do you really think they "Deserve" to die? 4. I really wish cyclists would get off their bikes and into their cars (83% of cyclists are car owners) for a month, and then Oxford would see just how bad traffic would be. Cyclists free up space on the roads, cause less damage to the surface and use no fuel so the stuff that's running out lasts a little bit longer. 5. There are reports every single week in this newspaper/website of deaths caused by cars, motorbikes & trucks hitting each other, pedestrians, cyclists, there is never any comment on those stories even though it is obvious from the statistics that drivers cause thousands of deaths every year through careless or dangerous driving; one story comes on, pointing out how cyclists could improve their safety and here you all are, spouting the same old rubbish, blaming the victims for their actions. 6 Drivers of any motor vehicle have a responsibility to do so carefully, and considerately, because otherwise they kill people. If you don't want to drive in a manner that is both responsible and considerate then I suggest you are the problem. Madi50n

1:48pm Wed 11 Dec 13

King Joke says...

This is all true Madison but there are as many idiot cyclists out there as there are idiot drivers; the bottom line is we all have to use the roads carefully and considerately to avoid injuries, regardless of whose fault it is.
This is all true Madison but there are as many idiot cyclists out there as there are idiot drivers; the bottom line is we all have to use the roads carefully and considerately to avoid injuries, regardless of whose fault it is. King Joke

1:58pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Citizen Sunday says...

Summeroli wrote:
I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!!

Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on.

With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!!

There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training!

I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States.
Though if this chap was as "oriental" as you say he was, then hopefully he wouldn't have celebrated xmas to have been "very miserable" about.

I just hope Scotland doesn't gain 'independence', then there'd be yet another irresponsible group of 'non-British' cyclist's to contend with.
[quote][p][bold]Summeroli[/bold] wrote: I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!! Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on. With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!! There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training! I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States.[/p][/quote]Though if this chap was as "oriental" as you say he was, then hopefully he wouldn't have celebrated xmas to have been "very miserable" about. I just hope Scotland doesn't gain 'independence', then there'd be yet another irresponsible group of 'non-British' cyclist's to contend with. Citizen Sunday

2:05pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

King Joke wrote:
This is all true Madison but there are as many idiot cyclists out there as there are idiot drivers; the bottom line is we all have to use the roads carefully and considerately to avoid injuries, regardless of whose fault it is.
I am not disagreeing with you. I see many stupid cyclists doing stupid things. GrandConjuration's list covers most of them. The cyclists that cause 20% of accidents need to be more considerate and more careful.

However, cyclists die when they do stupid things, motorists kill when they do stupid things, two very different outcomes for careless or dangerous road use.

The comments on these boards are reflected in twitter, facebook and comments boards all over the country. "Cyclists are bad", "Cyclists are dangerous", "Cyclists should do this..." "Cyclists shouldn't do that..."

Yet cyclists aren't the one's killing & injuring thousands annually, cyclists aren't the one's causing rush hour jams, they aren't the one's using up precious fossil fuels, they aren't the ones blocking major routes with accidents (2 reported in the mail today).

All of these things are done by motorists and the stories never ever receive the kinds of ridiculous comments any story where the word cyclists appears.

It's frustrating that in the 21st century people are still under the impression that cycling is a hobby and has no place on the road or as part of a solution to improve traffic in cities.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: This is all true Madison but there are as many idiot cyclists out there as there are idiot drivers; the bottom line is we all have to use the roads carefully and considerately to avoid injuries, regardless of whose fault it is.[/p][/quote]I am not disagreeing with you. I see many stupid cyclists doing stupid things. GrandConjuration's list covers most of them. The cyclists that cause 20% of accidents need to be more considerate and more careful. However, cyclists die when they do stupid things, motorists kill when they do stupid things, two very different outcomes for careless or dangerous road use. The comments on these boards are reflected in twitter, facebook and comments boards all over the country. "Cyclists are bad", "Cyclists are dangerous", "Cyclists should do this..." "Cyclists shouldn't do that..." Yet cyclists aren't the one's killing & injuring thousands annually, cyclists aren't the one's causing rush hour jams, they aren't the one's using up precious fossil fuels, they aren't the ones blocking major routes with accidents (2 reported in the mail today). All of these things are done by motorists and the stories never ever receive the kinds of ridiculous comments any story where the word cyclists appears. It's frustrating that in the 21st century people are still under the impression that cycling is a hobby and has no place on the road or as part of a solution to improve traffic in cities. Madi50n

2:06pm Wed 11 Dec 13

King Joke says...

It's frustrating that in the 21st century people are still under the impression that cycling is a hobby and has no place on the road or as part of a solution to improve traffic in cities.

A non-denominational 'Amen' to that!
It's frustrating that in the 21st century people are still under the impression that cycling is a hobby and has no place on the road or as part of a solution to improve traffic in cities. A non-denominational 'Amen' to that! King Joke

8:27pm Wed 11 Dec 13

grandconjuration says...

Big red bus wrote:
Big red bus wrote:
Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you ,
Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess
-181 wow upset some cyclists better then killing them ?
The score is for your command of the written word.
[quote][p][bold]Big red bus[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Big red bus[/bold] wrote: Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you , Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess[/p][/quote]-181 wow upset some cyclists better then killing them ?[/p][/quote]The score is for your command of the written word. grandconjuration

7:35am Thu 12 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Summeroli wrote:
I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!! Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on. With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!! There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training! I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States.
I and others have explained why we can't always use cycle paths - sometimes they are rubbish, are being used by pedestrians, or are covered in ice or fallen leaves and branches.

We've got every legal right to use the road where that is the best option for us.
[quote][p][bold]Summeroli[/bold] wrote: I refer back to the oxford mail story on the 04/11 that 171 cyclists were caught in three hours for various cycling offences but predominately for having no lights on their bike. This was just one road out of many in 3 hours!!! Maybe instead of keep insulting drivers these people should be educated regarding road safety. Unfortunately there are terrible car drivers out there (and I experience them every day) and due to the large amount of immigrants in Oxford, quite a few won't hold valid UK driving licenses. This makes our roads unsafe to either drive or cycle on. With this in mind why on earth would you risk cycling in the dark with no lights??? Also why wouldn't you use cycle paths when they are purpose built and don't have cars on them?? Also a common problem is when cycle lanes are available, for example, Botley Road, the majority of cyclists who want to overtake the bike in front just pull straight out into the car lane without checking over their shoulder. This happened to me yesterday by an oriental guy, I had to brake sharp and swerve to avoid contact with him and he then had the cheek to swear at me!! He's lucky I've spent so much time on the track as if my reactions were slower he would of had a very miserable xmas indeed!! There are as many bad drivers out there as there are bad cyclists however cyclists should put more thought into there actions as whether they are in the right or wrong they will be the ones that end up hurt! I must admit though, through my experience the cyclists I've had issues have always been non-british nationals. Maybe it's about time the universities took some responsibility and give people training! I also believe that secure a driving license you should have to do an awful lot more than a few lessons and a ridiculous seated exam. We should learn a lesson from the Nordic States.[/p][/quote]I and others have explained why we can't always use cycle paths - sometimes they are rubbish, are being used by pedestrians, or are covered in ice or fallen leaves and branches. We've got every legal right to use the road where that is the best option for us. King Joke

8:30am Thu 12 Dec 13

AngelB says...

Cyclists are selfish idiots, you only have to walk down Botley Road of a night and do a rough count of how many of the morons have no lights (let alone a helmet). Sensibly, realising they can't be seen, they ride on the path not the road and just force pedestrians to move out of their way!

And yes they do deserve to be roadkill. One of them (unlit and presumably no bell - or didn't know how to use the bell) hit me while I was walking in Oxford after 10pm a few weeks back and pulled me into the middle of the road! Fortunately there was no vehicle coming or I might not be here to say that next time one comes too close I'll be punching them into the road and off their damned bike before they get the chance to injure me.

Darwinism - we should be grateful when they remove themselves from the gene pool its just sad when they take others out with them or get drivers (who do use lights at night!) blamed.
Cyclists are selfish idiots, you only have to walk down Botley Road of a night and do a rough count of how many of the morons have no lights (let alone a helmet). Sensibly, realising they can't be seen, they ride on the path not the road and just force pedestrians to move out of their way! And yes they do deserve to be roadkill. One of them (unlit and presumably no bell - or didn't know how to use the bell) hit me while I was walking in Oxford after 10pm a few weeks back and pulled me into the middle of the road! Fortunately there was no vehicle coming or I might not be here to say that next time one comes too close I'll be punching them into the road and off their damned bike before they get the chance to injure me. Darwinism - we should be grateful when they remove themselves from the gene pool its just sad when they take others out with them or get drivers (who do use lights at night!) blamed. AngelB

9:28am Thu 12 Dec 13

museli says...

... and on the same logical basis all motorists deserve to die because of that one who could have killed me last year when they passed without leaving enough room and hit my pannier.

If we are to resort to fools Darwinism instead of law then that surely means pedestrians who get squashed by cyclists are simply being removed from the gene pool as unable to share nicely. If we took away legal controls over Oxford city motorists and left them to the dictates of 'survival of the fittest' then they would long ago had to face the choice of starving in their gridlocked cars or leaving them to rust and opting for a more sensible form of transport.

Not a very well thought out post from AngelB there!
... and on the same logical basis all motorists deserve to die because of that one who could have killed me last year when they passed without leaving enough room and hit my pannier. If we are to resort to fools Darwinism instead of law then that surely means pedestrians who get squashed by cyclists are simply being removed from the gene pool as unable to share nicely. If we took away legal controls over Oxford city motorists and left them to the dictates of 'survival of the fittest' then they would long ago had to face the choice of starving in their gridlocked cars or leaving them to rust and opting for a more sensible form of transport. Not a very well thought out post from AngelB there! museli

9:41am Thu 12 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

Dear AngelB,

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. What a nasty little troll you are (Probably Dilligaf2010 with one of its many troll names). As the Botley Road is mostly cycle path, they are allowed to cycle there, so share nice. Your comments basically prove that people are irrational about bikes "Get on the cycle path", "Get off the cycle path" which one is it?

As for your oh so relevant post, the one designed to try and justify your hope that people die, I'm afraid I feel there's a whiff of BS around it. Even if it were true - sorry had to stop there, couldn't see my keyboard for the tears of laughter - please don't take the law in to your own hands, that would make you a violent criminal; however, should you do so, at least you'll end up in a prison cell for assault (worse if they get badly injured) meaning I don't have to worry that another mindless thug is wandering the streets.

As Museli points out, and I noted with evidence, motorists kill & injure thousands every single year, do you think they all deserved to die too? If your answer is yes, I'm sorry but you really are a nasty-minded troll & I am truly sorry for anybody that happens to know you, it must be awful for them.
Dear AngelB, Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. What a nasty little troll you are (Probably Dilligaf2010 with one of its many troll names). As the Botley Road is mostly cycle path, they are allowed to cycle there, so share nice. Your comments basically prove that people are irrational about bikes "Get on the cycle path", "Get off the cycle path" which one is it? As for your oh so relevant post, the one designed to try and justify your hope that people die, I'm afraid I feel there's a whiff of BS around it. Even if it were true - sorry had to stop there, couldn't see my keyboard for the tears of laughter - please don't take the law in to your own hands, that would make you a violent criminal; however, should you do so, at least you'll end up in a prison cell for assault (worse if they get badly injured) meaning I don't have to worry that another mindless thug is wandering the streets. As Museli points out, and I noted with evidence, motorists kill & injure thousands every single year, do you think they all deserved to die too? If your answer is yes, I'm sorry but you really are a nasty-minded troll & I am truly sorry for anybody that happens to know you, it must be awful for them. Madi50n

1:15pm Thu 12 Dec 13

AngelB says...

Madi50n wrote:
Dear AngelB,

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. What a nasty little troll you are (Probably Dilligaf2010 with one of its many troll names). As the Botley Road is mostly cycle path, they are allowed to cycle there, so share nice. Your comments basically prove that people are irrational about bikes "Get on the cycle path", "Get off the cycle path" which one is it?

As for your oh so relevant post, the one designed to try and justify your hope that people die, I'm afraid I feel there's a whiff of BS around it. Even if it were true - sorry had to stop there, couldn't see my keyboard for the tears of laughter - please don't take the law in to your own hands, that would make you a violent criminal; however, should you do so, at least you'll end up in a prison cell for assault (worse if they get badly injured) meaning I don't have to worry that another mindless thug is wandering the streets.

As Museli points out, and I noted with evidence, motorists kill & injure thousands every single year, do you think they all deserved to die too? If your answer is yes, I'm sorry but you really are a nasty-minded troll & I am truly sorry for anybody that happens to know you, it must be awful for them.
Thank you for your kind comments Madison and I’m pleased that my experience moved you to tears.

Your comments do appear to confirm that my observations are 100% spot on as I would conclude from your dreadful attitude that you are a cyclist/avid cycle supporter with not even a hint of empathy for someone injured by one of your mates. So I would be a criminal if I defended myself by pushing away a cyclist before it hit me but if cyclist does hit and injure me it makes me a nasty person for not enjoying being run over?

Why would I make up this experience? It happened and I reported it to the police who promised action on Oxford’s law breaking cyclists and here we have an article highlighting just how many of them are thumbing their snotty noses at the law!

I guess that being the superb person you doubtless think you are, if an unlit cyclist rode up behind you while you were walking quite lawfully on a well lit pavement (one which isn’t also a cycle track BTW), dragged you into the road resulting in you being off work for two days with sprained wrists – where your hands fell into the spokes – and severe bruising to your legs where your knees fell on the pedals you would get up, shake their hand and give them some money towards straightening out their bike!

I’m lucky as it could have been worse, fingers removed by spokes, fractured knees or being hit by a bus while lying in the road . . I do count my blessings!

And I’m not sure where I said bikes shouldn’t use the road or cycle path – wherever they are riding if it is dark they should have lights on - end of!
[quote][p][bold]Madi50n[/bold] wrote: Dear AngelB, Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. What a nasty little troll you are (Probably Dilligaf2010 with one of its many troll names). As the Botley Road is mostly cycle path, they are allowed to cycle there, so share nice. Your comments basically prove that people are irrational about bikes "Get on the cycle path", "Get off the cycle path" which one is it? As for your oh so relevant post, the one designed to try and justify your hope that people die, I'm afraid I feel there's a whiff of BS around it. Even if it were true - sorry had to stop there, couldn't see my keyboard for the tears of laughter - please don't take the law in to your own hands, that would make you a violent criminal; however, should you do so, at least you'll end up in a prison cell for assault (worse if they get badly injured) meaning I don't have to worry that another mindless thug is wandering the streets. As Museli points out, and I noted with evidence, motorists kill & injure thousands every single year, do you think they all deserved to die too? If your answer is yes, I'm sorry but you really are a nasty-minded troll & I am truly sorry for anybody that happens to know you, it must be awful for them.[/p][/quote]Thank you for your kind comments Madison and I’m pleased that my experience moved you to tears. Your comments do appear to confirm that my observations are 100% spot on as I would conclude from your dreadful attitude that you are a cyclist/avid cycle supporter with not even a hint of empathy for someone injured by one of your mates. So I would be a criminal if I defended myself by pushing away a cyclist before it hit me but if cyclist does hit and injure me it makes me a nasty person for not enjoying being run over? Why would I make up this experience? It happened and I reported it to the police who promised action on Oxford’s law breaking cyclists and here we have an article highlighting just how many of them are thumbing their snotty noses at the law! I guess that being the superb person you doubtless think you are, if an unlit cyclist rode up behind you while you were walking quite lawfully on a well lit pavement (one which isn’t also a cycle track BTW), dragged you into the road resulting in you being off work for two days with sprained wrists – where your hands fell into the spokes – and severe bruising to your legs where your knees fell on the pedals you would get up, shake their hand and give them some money towards straightening out their bike! I’m lucky as it could have been worse, fingers removed by spokes, fractured knees or being hit by a bus while lying in the road . . I do count my blessings! And I’m not sure where I said bikes shouldn’t use the road or cycle path – wherever they are riding if it is dark they should have lights on - end of! AngelB

1:22pm Thu 12 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Let's be clear Angel, the idiot who knocked you over is a hooligan first and a cyclist second. It's highly selective to extrapolate their behaviour to all cyclists though.

Stating that cyclists mown down by cars deserve to be roadkill, but pedestrians mown down by cyclists don't is simply double standards. What about pedestrians knocked down by motorists, where do you stand on these?
Let's be clear Angel, the idiot who knocked you over is a hooligan first and a cyclist second. It's highly selective to extrapolate their behaviour to all cyclists though. Stating that cyclists mown down by cars deserve to be roadkill, but pedestrians mown down by cyclists don't is simply double standards. What about pedestrians knocked down by motorists, where do you stand on these? King Joke

1:45pm Thu 12 Dec 13

AngelB says...

King Joke wrote:
Let's be clear Angel, the idiot who knocked you over is a hooligan first and a cyclist second. It's highly selective to extrapolate their behaviour to all cyclists though.

Stating that cyclists mown down by cars deserve to be roadkill, but pedestrians mown down by cyclists don't is simply double standards. What about pedestrians knocked down by motorists, where do you stand on these?
Thank you for your comment KJ, I don't honestly think Id have been injured if the hooligan hadn't been on a bike so I think they are firstly a cyclist who cares not for other road/path users rather than a hooligan out to cause trouble. My point is that we should all be responsible for ourselves and each other.

If I walk on the footpath in a well lit area I expect to be safe from vehicles and bikes both of which should be using the road not the path. If I use the road in poor light I have lights on my car so I can see others and they can see me.

If I had a bike (you will be surprised to know that I don't) I would have lights on it (and would use them). If I didn't bother with lights and got hit by a car while riding on a road at night I'd have only myself to blame.

If I walk anywhere which is poorly lit I have a 'flasher' and torch so I can see and be seen, I cross at crossings and look both ways (and hope that other road users have lights on so I can see them!) - again were I not to bother trying to be seen and wandered in the road to be hit by a car who's fault would that be?

And before you say everyone out in public should wear day glo vests, there is not much point walkers on the path wearing reflective clothing if bikes don't use the lights needed to highlight them or warn others of their presence.

I'm sure you will agree that it's all common sense really.
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: Let's be clear Angel, the idiot who knocked you over is a hooligan first and a cyclist second. It's highly selective to extrapolate their behaviour to all cyclists though. Stating that cyclists mown down by cars deserve to be roadkill, but pedestrians mown down by cyclists don't is simply double standards. What about pedestrians knocked down by motorists, where do you stand on these?[/p][/quote]Thank you for your comment KJ, I don't honestly think Id have been injured if the hooligan hadn't been on a bike so I think they are firstly a cyclist who cares not for other road/path users rather than a hooligan out to cause trouble. My point is that we should all be responsible for ourselves and each other. If I walk on the footpath in a well lit area I expect to be safe from vehicles and bikes both of which should be using the road not the path. If I use the road in poor light I have lights on my car so I can see others and they can see me. If I had a bike (you will be surprised to know that I don't) I would have lights on it (and would use them). If I didn't bother with lights and got hit by a car while riding on a road at night I'd have only myself to blame. If I walk anywhere which is poorly lit I have a 'flasher' and torch so I can see and be seen, I cross at crossings and look both ways (and hope that other road users have lights on so I can see them!) - again were I not to bother trying to be seen and wandered in the road to be hit by a car who's fault would that be? And before you say everyone out in public should wear day glo vests, there is not much point walkers on the path wearing reflective clothing if bikes don't use the lights needed to highlight them or warn others of their presence. I'm sure you will agree that it's all common sense really. AngelB

1:49pm Thu 12 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Given that most cyclists have lights, your evidence that the ones being squashed by vehicles don't have lights is where?

THe fact they still get squashed during the day, and during the summer, suggests visibilty is not the only factor.
Given that most cyclists have lights, your evidence that the ones being squashed by vehicles don't have lights is where? THe fact they still get squashed during the day, and during the summer, suggests visibilty is not the only factor. King Joke

6:21pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

Oh dear AngelB you don't seem to get it, do you?

I think you are nasty-minded because you categorically stated, and I quote your words, that "Cyclists are selfish idiots...", "...morons..." and most nasty of all "they do deserve to be road kill."

You took all cyclists, regardless of age, gender or race and generalised them. Then said they deserved to die.

For those reasons and no other you are a bigot, bigots are nasty, narrow-minded, ignorant and stupid.

Is that clear, whether you wee involved in an accident or not, and whose fault it was is irrelevant to my opinion of you. Your bigoted statements and belief that an entire group of people deserve to die based on their choice of transport is all I needed to form my opinion.
Oh dear AngelB you don't seem to get it, do you? I think you are nasty-minded because you categorically stated, and I quote your words, that "Cyclists are selfish idiots...", "...morons..." and most nasty of all "they do deserve to be road kill." You took all cyclists, regardless of age, gender or race and generalised them. Then said they deserved to die. For those reasons and no other you are a bigot, bigots are nasty, narrow-minded, ignorant and stupid. Is that clear, whether you wee involved in an accident or not, and whose fault it was is irrelevant to my opinion of you. Your bigoted statements and belief that an entire group of people deserve to die based on their choice of transport is all I needed to form my opinion. Madi50n

8:44am Fri 13 Dec 13

King Joke says...

I wonder, if Angel had been barged into by a hooligan pedestrian and knocked flying, whether they would be delcaring that all pedestrians were idiots who deserved to die?
I wonder, if Angel had been barged into by a hooligan pedestrian and knocked flying, whether they would be delcaring that all pedestrians were idiots who deserved to die? King Joke

11:32am Fri 13 Dec 13

livid99 says...

grandconjuration wrote:
Cyclist-haters. It must be tough to remember all of the things you hate about cyclists, so please use this checklist so you don't miss any of the major points.

Make sure to mention that ALL cyclists do some or all of the following. Choosing contradictory and inaccurate points in fine.

Run red lights.
Don't pay road tax.
Should ride on the pavement, not roads.
Ride on the pavement.
They think they own the road.
Roads are for cars, not for bicycles.
Don't have insurance.
Ride too slow.
Ride too fast.
Ride two abreast, illegally.
Don't use bells.
Expect us to jump out of the way when they ring their bell.
Don't ride in bike lanes provided at our expense.
Clad in Lycra.
Wear garish colours.
Wear dark clothes.
Can't afford a car.
Ride expensive bikes.
Wear silly-looking headgear.
Don't wear helmets.
Don't ride with lights.
Dazzle with flashing lights.
Wear high vis.
Don't wear high vis.
Cause most collisions on the roads.
Kill themselves by riding on cycle lanes alongside HGVs.
Wear headphones.
Smug because they think they are saving the planet.
Are dangerous.
Ride in the middle of the road.
Cause pollution by slowing down traffic.
They think they are in the Tour de France.
Never indicate.
Ride without both hands on the handlebars.
Cycling is for children, not adults.
Children shouldn't be allowed to cycle on the roads.

That should make it easier for you and I see that you've ticked off a few already.

(List adapted from an article by cycling advocate Carlton Reid.)
Yes, that covers everything. But you you forgot one important one - "They are arrogant, defensive, too sensitive on online comment boards and cannot accept ANY criticism at all because they NEVER do anything wrong and it is only motorists to are a danger on the roads"
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: Cyclist-haters. It must be tough to remember all of the things you hate about cyclists, so please use this checklist so you don't miss any of the major points. Make sure to mention that ALL cyclists do some or all of the following. Choosing contradictory and inaccurate points in fine. Run red lights. Don't pay road tax. Should ride on the pavement, not roads. Ride on the pavement. They think they own the road. Roads are for cars, not for bicycles. Don't have insurance. Ride too slow. Ride too fast. Ride two abreast, illegally. Don't use bells. Expect us to jump out of the way when they ring their bell. Don't ride in bike lanes provided at our expense. Clad in Lycra. Wear garish colours. Wear dark clothes. Can't afford a car. Ride expensive bikes. Wear silly-looking headgear. Don't wear helmets. Don't ride with lights. Dazzle with flashing lights. Wear high vis. Don't wear high vis. Cause most collisions on the roads. Kill themselves by riding on cycle lanes alongside HGVs. Wear headphones. Smug because they think they are saving the planet. Are dangerous. Ride in the middle of the road. Cause pollution by slowing down traffic. They think they are in the Tour de France. Never indicate. Ride without both hands on the handlebars. Cycling is for children, not adults. Children shouldn't be allowed to cycle on the roads. That should make it easier for you and I see that you've ticked off a few already. (List adapted from an article by cycling advocate Carlton Reid.)[/p][/quote]Yes, that covers everything. But you you forgot one important one - "They are arrogant, defensive, too sensitive on online comment boards and cannot accept ANY criticism at all because they NEVER do anything wrong and it is only motorists to are a danger on the roads" livid99

11:49am Fri 13 Dec 13

King Joke says...

We can accept criticism. There is a difference however between criticism, eg 'Cyclists who ride on the pavements and knock people over are idiots', and daft sweeping generalisations like 'all cyclists are idiots who deserve to die'.
We can accept criticism. There is a difference however between criticism, eg 'Cyclists who ride on the pavements and knock people over are idiots', and daft sweeping generalisations like 'all cyclists are idiots who deserve to die'. King Joke

2:50pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

Oh dear Livid99, did you not get GrandConjuration's tone of sarcasm? And you seem to have also fallen into AngelB's form of Bigotry.

"They are...", "They never..." What every single one? Regardless of age, gender, race, upbringing, religious beliefs? Every single one of them uses a cycle, therefore every single one of them thinks, acts and behaves a specific way?

I'm afraid that's the kind of bigotry and hatred cyclists are faced with by some sections of society on a daily basis. That kind of hatred tends to breed a certain amount of defensiveness & sensitivity. especially from those cyclists that obey the law, use lights, cycle responsibly and yet still attract abuse on the road, and off it.

I won't accept criticism from bigots, because bigots are narrow-minded, stupid and ignorant..

I don't think all motorists are dangerous, after all, I am a motorist, my partner is a motorist, my family are motorists, my friends are motorists, and none of them seem to have caused accidents, nor do they seem to hate cyclists, believe it or not some of them have bicycles and use them too.

I know for a fact that the motorists out there who are causing accidents do not represent every single motorist. I know this because how a person decides to move from A to B is no indication of what kind of person they are.

You and AngelB and a scarily large amount of other people treat cyclists as non-humans, saying that they deserve death, that they all do bad things, that they are all selfish, all dangerous, same old blah blah blah on every single comments board. That makes you bigots, and bigots are always, I'll repeat that word, ALWAYS wrong!

So for clarity sake, if you were rational, had a sensible argument and were capable of moving away from your narrow view of cyclists, I'd happily listen to what you have to say. But because you claim all cyclists are the same, you're a bigot, and not worth considering in any argument, discussion or criticism.
Oh dear Livid99, did you not get GrandConjuration's tone of sarcasm? And you seem to have also fallen into AngelB's form of Bigotry. "They are...", "They never..." What every single one? Regardless of age, gender, race, upbringing, religious beliefs? Every single one of them uses a cycle, therefore every single one of them thinks, acts and behaves a specific way? I'm afraid that's the kind of bigotry and hatred cyclists are faced with by some sections of society on a daily basis. That kind of hatred tends to breed a certain amount of defensiveness & sensitivity. especially from those cyclists that obey the law, use lights, cycle responsibly and yet still attract abuse on the road, and off it. I won't accept criticism from bigots, because bigots are narrow-minded, stupid and ignorant.. I don't think all motorists are dangerous, after all, I am a motorist, my partner is a motorist, my family are motorists, my friends are motorists, and none of them seem to have caused accidents, nor do they seem to hate cyclists, believe it or not some of them have bicycles and use them too. I know for a fact that the motorists out there who are causing accidents do not represent every single motorist. I know this because how a person decides to move from A to B is no indication of what kind of person they are. You and AngelB and a scarily large amount of other people treat cyclists as non-humans, saying that they deserve death, that they all do bad things, that they are all selfish, all dangerous, same old blah blah blah on every single comments board. That makes you bigots, and bigots are always, I'll repeat that word, ALWAYS wrong! So for clarity sake, if you were rational, had a sensible argument and were capable of moving away from your narrow view of cyclists, I'd happily listen to what you have to say. But because you claim all cyclists are the same, you're a bigot, and not worth considering in any argument, discussion or criticism. Madi50n

3:05pm Fri 13 Dec 13

livid99 says...

Madi50n wrote:
Oh dear Livid99, did you not get GrandConjuration's tone of sarcasm? And you seem to have also fallen into AngelB's form of Bigotry.

"They are...", "They never..." What every single one? Regardless of age, gender, race, upbringing, religious beliefs? Every single one of them uses a cycle, therefore every single one of them thinks, acts and behaves a specific way?

I'm afraid that's the kind of bigotry and hatred cyclists are faced with by some sections of society on a daily basis. That kind of hatred tends to breed a certain amount of defensiveness & sensitivity. especially from those cyclists that obey the law, use lights, cycle responsibly and yet still attract abuse on the road, and off it.

I won't accept criticism from bigots, because bigots are narrow-minded, stupid and ignorant..

I don't think all motorists are dangerous, after all, I am a motorist, my partner is a motorist, my family are motorists, my friends are motorists, and none of them seem to have caused accidents, nor do they seem to hate cyclists, believe it or not some of them have bicycles and use them too.

I know for a fact that the motorists out there who are causing accidents do not represent every single motorist. I know this because how a person decides to move from A to B is no indication of what kind of person they are.

You and AngelB and a scarily large amount of other people treat cyclists as non-humans, saying that they deserve death, that they all do bad things, that they are all selfish, all dangerous, same old blah blah blah on every single comments board. That makes you bigots, and bigots are always, I'll repeat that word, ALWAYS wrong!

So for clarity sake, if you were rational, had a sensible argument and were capable of moving away from your narrow view of cyclists, I'd happily listen to what you have to say. But because you claim all cyclists are the same, you're a bigot, and not worth considering in any argument, discussion or criticism.
Hahaha...see what I mean.....any comment which points out a fault of some/any/most/all cyclists, gets this kind of over the top reaction. I make one comment criticising the reaction of cyclists and you launch into huge fit of insults and throwing the word bigot around all over the place. Criticising the actions of cyclists does not mean I hate them as people, so your fondness for the word bigot is misplaced. I have never wished death on a cyclist, but the way SOME of them ride seems to indicate a certain amount of disregard for their own safety.
So wind your neck in matey.
[quote][p][bold]Madi50n[/bold] wrote: Oh dear Livid99, did you not get GrandConjuration's tone of sarcasm? And you seem to have also fallen into AngelB's form of Bigotry. "They are...", "They never..." What every single one? Regardless of age, gender, race, upbringing, religious beliefs? Every single one of them uses a cycle, therefore every single one of them thinks, acts and behaves a specific way? I'm afraid that's the kind of bigotry and hatred cyclists are faced with by some sections of society on a daily basis. That kind of hatred tends to breed a certain amount of defensiveness & sensitivity. especially from those cyclists that obey the law, use lights, cycle responsibly and yet still attract abuse on the road, and off it. I won't accept criticism from bigots, because bigots are narrow-minded, stupid and ignorant.. I don't think all motorists are dangerous, after all, I am a motorist, my partner is a motorist, my family are motorists, my friends are motorists, and none of them seem to have caused accidents, nor do they seem to hate cyclists, believe it or not some of them have bicycles and use them too. I know for a fact that the motorists out there who are causing accidents do not represent every single motorist. I know this because how a person decides to move from A to B is no indication of what kind of person they are. You and AngelB and a scarily large amount of other people treat cyclists as non-humans, saying that they deserve death, that they all do bad things, that they are all selfish, all dangerous, same old blah blah blah on every single comments board. That makes you bigots, and bigots are always, I'll repeat that word, ALWAYS wrong! So for clarity sake, if you were rational, had a sensible argument and were capable of moving away from your narrow view of cyclists, I'd happily listen to what you have to say. But because you claim all cyclists are the same, you're a bigot, and not worth considering in any argument, discussion or criticism.[/p][/quote]Hahaha...see what I mean.....any comment which points out a fault of some/any/most/all cyclists, gets this kind of over the top reaction. I make one comment criticising the reaction of cyclists and you launch into huge fit of insults and throwing the word bigot around all over the place. Criticising the actions of cyclists does not mean I hate them as people, so your fondness for the word bigot is misplaced. I have never wished death on a cyclist, but the way SOME of them ride seems to indicate a certain amount of disregard for their own safety. So wind your neck in matey. livid99

3:13pm Fri 13 Dec 13

King Joke says...

Why didn't you say that in the first place? It's a bit of a U-turn.
Why didn't you say that in the first place? It's a bit of a U-turn. King Joke

3:38pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

Livid99 I refer you to the last paragraph of my last comment.
Livid99 I refer you to the last paragraph of my last comment. Madi50n

3:38pm Fri 13 Dec 13

livid99 says...

King Joke wrote:
Why didn't you say that in the first place? It's a bit of a U-turn.
Its not a U-turn. I've never said they deserve to die !!
[quote][p][bold]King Joke[/bold] wrote: Why didn't you say that in the first place? It's a bit of a U-turn.[/p][/quote]Its not a U-turn. I've never said they deserve to die !! livid99

4:01pm Fri 13 Dec 13

livid99 says...

Madi50n wrote:
Livid99 I refer you to the last paragraph of my last comment.
Yes ? And ? You say my views are not worth considering. You obviously decided to respond again though, presumable to remind me I am a bigot ?
[quote][p][bold]Madi50n[/bold] wrote: Livid99 I refer you to the last paragraph of my last comment.[/p][/quote]Yes ? And ? You say my views are not worth considering. You obviously decided to respond again though, presumable to remind me I am a bigot ? livid99

4:14pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

Livid99 I quote your exact words:

"They are arrogant, defensive, too sensitive on online comment boards and cannot accept ANY criticism at all because they NEVER do anything wrong and it is only motorists to are a danger on the roads"

You meant every single cyclist, you didn't say "some", nor "a percentage of", or even "the majority of", but all of them.

Your comment, aimed at all cyclists was uniformly negative and insulting, "arrogant"? It's quite easy to see that you hold a single opinion of all cyclists and that it is not a good one.

Cyclists face that attitude daily, I'd like to see you face that kind of negativity from motorists and pedestrians on a daily basis and be able to smile serenely and accept it. I doubt very much you would be able to.

I quite clearly noted in my 1st reply to King Joke

"I see many stupid cyclists doing stupid things. GrandConjuration's list covers most of them. The cyclists that cause 20% of accidents need to be more considerate and more careful."

So unfortunately, again, you claimed I/we "...we cannot ACCEPT any criticism.." and think we "...NEVER do wrong and that only motorists are a danger." when Both King Joke and I have patently accepted criticism and that some cyclists are bad, stupid, dangerous.

Agreed, you didn't say we deserve death, but 2 other people on this set of comments have said that very thing and, unfortunately, that's commonplace too.

I can not listen to, nor accept the opinion of anyone who thinks just because someone uses a specific form of transport that they know what they are like, and you Livid99 did just that. you didn't make, and again I quote your exact words:

"any comment which points out a fault of some/any/most/all cyclists"

you said it was all cyclists.

I agree, you may not hate them as people, but my point is, homogenising them into one "They all do this" group, means you don't see them as individual people at all, and you have nothing but negative opinions about that single mass.

I hope that's clarified my points; cyclists are not all saints, but they they are not all bad. Cyclists receive more abuse & negativity than any other road user or commuter, even when talking about good advice for safe cycling, just like in the article to which these comments are attached, the negativity is immediate and in some cases nauseating in its hatred.

When stories about motorists dying, injuring or killing others are posted on this site, there is NEVER the level of negativity posted as there is against cyclists, most of the time there are zero comments, even though motorists kill and injure thousands of other motorists, cyclist and pedestrians. Why is that?

I am bored now, I have no idea why I got involved in the first place. This story will disappear and it will all start up again soon, with the same old "Cyclists are dangerous, should be banned, deserve to die." comments written by the same old people.
Livid99 I quote your exact words: "They are arrogant, defensive, too sensitive on online comment boards and cannot accept ANY criticism at all because they NEVER do anything wrong and it is only motorists to are a danger on the roads" You meant every single cyclist, you didn't say "some", nor "a percentage of", or even "the majority of", but all of them. Your comment, aimed at all cyclists was uniformly negative and insulting, "arrogant"? It's quite easy to see that you hold a single opinion of all cyclists and that it is not a good one. Cyclists face that attitude daily, I'd like to see you face that kind of negativity from motorists and pedestrians on a daily basis and be able to smile serenely and accept it. I doubt very much you would be able to. I quite clearly noted in my 1st reply to King Joke "I see many stupid cyclists doing stupid things. GrandConjuration's list covers most of them. The cyclists that cause 20% of accidents need to be more considerate and more careful." So unfortunately, again, you claimed I/we "...we cannot ACCEPT any criticism.." and think we "...NEVER do wrong and that only motorists are a danger." when Both King Joke and I have patently accepted criticism and that some cyclists are bad, stupid, dangerous. Agreed, you didn't say we deserve death, but 2 other people on this set of comments have said that very thing and, unfortunately, that's commonplace too. I can not listen to, nor accept the opinion of anyone who thinks just because someone uses a specific form of transport that they know what they are like, and you Livid99 did just that. you didn't make, and again I quote your exact words: "any comment which points out a fault of some/any/most/all cyclists" you said it was all cyclists. I agree, you may not hate them as people, but my point is, homogenising them into one "They all do this" group, means you don't see them as individual people at all, and you have nothing but negative opinions about that single mass. I hope that's clarified my points; cyclists are not all saints, but they they are not all bad. Cyclists receive more abuse & negativity than any other road user or commuter, even when talking about good advice for safe cycling, just like in the article to which these comments are attached, the negativity is immediate and in some cases nauseating in its hatred. When stories about motorists dying, injuring or killing others are posted on this site, there is NEVER the level of negativity posted as there is against cyclists, most of the time there are zero comments, even though motorists kill and injure thousands of other motorists, cyclist and pedestrians. Why is that? I am bored now, I have no idea why I got involved in the first place. This story will disappear and it will all start up again soon, with the same old "Cyclists are dangerous, should be banned, deserve to die." comments written by the same old people. Madi50n

1:38pm Sat 14 Dec 13

grandconjuration says...

Maybe it's time to give up Madi50n and King Joke, it's very difficult to have a sensible discussion with idiots like livid99 and AngelB. They're too stupid even to grasp the sarcasm of my earlier comment.

It never ceases to amaze me how in comments threads related to cycling there is a bizarre tendency to propose that 'cyclists' are some homogenous hive-mind that not only all think and behave alike, they are also somehow able to influence the behaviour of all others of their kind.

If I was to propose that all car drivers, pedestrians, train passengers, mothers, plumbers, people from Belgium or left handed people somehow all behaved as one and were jointly responsible for each other's actions the idea would be considered deranged. But somehow this is seen as being perfectly acceptable when it comes to 'cyclists'. Very odd.
Maybe it's time to give up Madi50n and King Joke, it's very difficult to have a sensible discussion with idiots like livid99 and AngelB. They're too stupid even to grasp the sarcasm of my earlier comment. It never ceases to amaze me how in comments threads related to cycling there is a bizarre tendency to propose that 'cyclists' are some homogenous hive-mind that not only all think and behave alike, they are also somehow able to influence the behaviour of all others of their kind. If I was to propose that all car drivers, pedestrians, train passengers, mothers, plumbers, people from Belgium or left handed people somehow all behaved as one and were jointly responsible for each other's actions the idea would be considered deranged. But somehow this is seen as being perfectly acceptable when it comes to 'cyclists'. Very odd. grandconjuration

2:08pm Sat 14 Dec 13

Madi50n says...

Unfortunately, GrandConjuration, you are right.
Unfortunately, GrandConjuration, you are right. Madi50n

5:20pm Sun 15 Dec 13

Big red bus says...

grandconjuration wrote:
Big red bus wrote:
Big red bus wrote:
Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you ,
Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess
-181 wow upset some cyclists better then killing them ?
The score is for your command of the written word.
Thanks for puting me right , Iam new to this
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Big red bus[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Big red bus[/bold] wrote: Please stop going up the inside of my bus ,at the top of the high st when Iam going down st aldates , who will live a lots longer . Thank you , Ps lights at night will help me see you to . Just think 15 tons will make a mess[/p][/quote]-181 wow upset some cyclists better then killing them ?[/p][/quote]The score is for your command of the written word.[/p][/quote]Thanks for puting me right , Iam new to this Big red bus

8:18am Mon 16 Dec 13

livid99 says...

grandconjuration wrote:
Maybe it's time to give up Madi50n and King Joke, it's very difficult to have a sensible discussion with idiots like livid99 and AngelB. They're too stupid even to grasp the sarcasm of my earlier comment.

It never ceases to amaze me how in comments threads related to cycling there is a bizarre tendency to propose that 'cyclists' are some homogenous hive-mind that not only all think and behave alike, they are also somehow able to influence the behaviour of all others of their kind.

If I was to propose that all car drivers, pedestrians, train passengers, mothers, plumbers, people from Belgium or left handed people somehow all behaved as one and were jointly responsible for each other's actions the idea would be considered deranged. But somehow this is seen as being perfectly acceptable when it comes to 'cyclists'. Very odd.
Thanks for the insults. In every discussion there always someone who knows what everyone's opinion SHOULD be, and in this case it appears to be you. Just carry on in your continual denial that there are cyclists out there who are a danger to themselves and the rest of us will carry on doing our best to avoid them on the roads when they are not lit up or are breaking the rules.
If you want to call me an idiot - fine go ahead if it helps your ego, but the real idiots are people who cycle on busy roads in the dark with no lights on and music in their ears. They exist, and will continue with their stupidity, and those of us who drive cars and buses will continue to do our best to avoid hitting them.
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: Maybe it's time to give up Madi50n and King Joke, it's very difficult to have a sensible discussion with idiots like livid99 and AngelB. They're too stupid even to grasp the sarcasm of my earlier comment. It never ceases to amaze me how in comments threads related to cycling there is a bizarre tendency to propose that 'cyclists' are some homogenous hive-mind that not only all think and behave alike, they are also somehow able to influence the behaviour of all others of their kind. If I was to propose that all car drivers, pedestrians, train passengers, mothers, plumbers, people from Belgium or left handed people somehow all behaved as one and were jointly responsible for each other's actions the idea would be considered deranged. But somehow this is seen as being perfectly acceptable when it comes to 'cyclists'. Very odd.[/p][/quote]Thanks for the insults. In every discussion there always someone who knows what everyone's opinion SHOULD be, and in this case it appears to be you. Just carry on in your continual denial that there are cyclists out there who are a danger to themselves and the rest of us will carry on doing our best to avoid them on the roads when they are not lit up or are breaking the rules. If you want to call me an idiot - fine go ahead if it helps your ego, but the real idiots are people who cycle on busy roads in the dark with no lights on and music in their ears. They exist, and will continue with their stupidity, and those of us who drive cars and buses will continue to do our best to avoid hitting them. livid99

12:05pm Mon 16 Dec 13

Dilligaf2010 says...

@Madi50n
3. Saying someone deserves to die Dilligaf2010? Really? You do know that's a human being you are casually saying should die for doing something you don't like. Someone's father, mother, sister, brother, son or daughter. Do you really think they "Deserve" to die?
...Yes, but I wasn't saying it's something I don't like, it's a fact.
@Madi50n 3. Saying someone deserves to die Dilligaf2010? Really? You do know that's a human being you are casually saying should die for doing something you don't like. Someone's father, mother, sister, brother, son or daughter. Do you really think they "Deserve" to die? ...Yes, but I wasn't saying it's something I don't like, it's a fact. Dilligaf2010

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree