Cars on footpaths in Oxford ‘endangering the disabled’

Ellen Bassani   Picture: OX69478 Ed Nix

Ellen Bassani Picture: OX69478 Ed Nix

First published in News Oxford Mail: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter covering Rose Hill, Iffley and Littlemore. Please call me on (01865) 425422

A BLIND woman is calling for action to be taken over parking on pavements after she was knocked down by a lorry because she couldn’t walk on the footpath.

Ellen Bassani, 64, of Norreys Avenue, suffered severe injuries to her ribs when she was hit by the vehicle in May while trying to make her way up Sunningwell Road.

She said she has no option but to walk up the middle of the road because cars and other street furniture make it impossible for her to stay on the pavement.

She said: “I was going into Sunningwell Road, I walked down the middle of the road due to access problems. I came around the corner and I heard a vehicle idling.

“I was in the middle of the road and tried to get to the side of the road. I had to use a stick to find a gap between the cars (to get onto the pavement) when the truck hit me. I thought it was idling, in fact it was reversing and it knocked me off my feet.

“Everyone told me I should go to the hospital but I chose not to and five hours later I rang NHS Direct and they sent the ambulance and they were great.

“My blood pressure was astronomical. They checked me over and to see if I had broken ribs.

“They waited with me until my blood pressure came down and they rang the emergency doctor, he suggested I take some blood pressure pills.

“I am not sure I have quite recovered to be honest. Physically it took about five weeks to recover but I am still haunted by noises.

“I had such confidence in my abilities to judge but I thought the truck was idling and it was actually moving.”

Mrs Bassani, who moved to Oxford from Queensland, Australia, 34 years ago, said cars parked on pavements and wheely bins left out were not just a problem for blind people.

She said: “It is not just the disabled community, it is people with mobility issues and young children. People are just not thinking, that’s the problem.

“I don’t know how it came about but in Lake Street, for some reason, they have agreed to park on the footpaths on the left side so the right footpath is always clear. I think this is something on these Oxford streets which they should adopt.

“I do understand drivers are concerned about cars being damaged, this would be a good compromise.”

Oxfordshire county councillor John Tanner said he was aware of the problem and encouraged residents to be more considerate.

He said: “I think it is very important that people do not obstruct each other’s movement on pavements.

“Rather than introducing new rules we should all think: ‘What if it were me who were in a wheelchair or blind or had other problems?’ “I think it is a problem all over Oxford and I think pedestrians are being pushed into a corner.

“I would like to see much more priority for pedestrians, particularly those with a disability.”

Ms Bassani said the incident had hurt her physically, but had also shaken her confidence.

She said: “I had very severe injuries to my ribs but the thing that really damaged me was a real kick to my confidence.’’


 

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Comments (36)

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5:02pm Tue 26 Aug 14

EMBOX2 says...

Absolutely terrible and agree 100% with the lady, however Oxford was not designed for cars, and the sheer number of students with cars now is a major problem on side streets off Abingdon Rd and many others.

If everyone parked on the road, no traffic would get through, and so the only solution is to provide very low-cost, secure long term parking for Oxford residents who only use their cars once in a blue moon.
Absolutely terrible and agree 100% with the lady, however Oxford was not designed for cars, and the sheer number of students with cars now is a major problem on side streets off Abingdon Rd and many others. If everyone parked on the road, no traffic would get through, and so the only solution is to provide very low-cost, secure long term parking for Oxford residents who only use their cars once in a blue moon. EMBOX2
  • Score: 5

5:22pm Tue 26 Aug 14

Sibraman says...

Given that the Council has chosen to partially block the pavements of many side streets in Oxford with designated parking spaces, the Councillor's comments seem a little disingenuous!
Given that the Council has chosen to partially block the pavements of many side streets in Oxford with designated parking spaces, the Councillor's comments seem a little disingenuous! Sibraman
  • Score: 1

5:43pm Tue 26 Aug 14

carli says...

Poor lady, another danger is cyclists on pavements....things have to be done to stop pavements becoming dangerous places.
Poor lady, another danger is cyclists on pavements....things have to be done to stop pavements becoming dangerous places. carli
  • Score: 0

6:05pm Tue 26 Aug 14

xenarthra says...

carli wrote:
Poor lady, another danger is cyclists on pavements....things have to be done to stop pavements becoming dangerous places.
Another danger is pianos falling on your head. What have cyclists got to do with this story?! Nothing at all!

But I agree that drivers should park as considerately as possible, given the very limited capacity of many our roads and pavements.
[quote][p][bold]carli[/bold] wrote: Poor lady, another danger is cyclists on pavements....things have to be done to stop pavements becoming dangerous places.[/p][/quote]Another danger is pianos falling on your head. What have cyclists got to do with this story?! Nothing at all! But I agree that drivers should park as considerately as possible, given the very limited capacity of many our roads and pavements. xenarthra
  • Score: 6

6:19pm Tue 26 Aug 14

pun-jabi says...

From the picture it looks to me that the wheelie bin is the biggest problem not the parked cars who form some protection from thru traffic for the Lady.
From the picture it looks to me that the wheelie bin is the biggest problem not the parked cars who form some protection from thru traffic for the Lady. pun-jabi
  • Score: 2

7:26pm Tue 26 Aug 14

HomerSimpsonDoh says...

The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest
The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest HomerSimpsonDoh
  • Score: -7

7:38pm Tue 26 Aug 14

grandconjuration says...

HomerSimpsonDoh wrote:
The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest
Any evidence for that?

Every year, 40-60 pedestrians are killed by motor vehicles while walking on a pavement. That's roughly one per week.

The number of pedestrians killed by cyclists on the pavement is approximately 0 per annum.

Let's focus on the real danger.
[quote][p][bold]HomerSimpsonDoh[/bold] wrote: The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest[/p][/quote]Any evidence for that? Every year, 40-60 pedestrians are killed by motor vehicles while walking on a pavement. That's roughly one per week. The number of pedestrians killed by cyclists on the pavement is approximately 0 per annum. Let's focus on the real danger. grandconjuration
  • Score: 6

7:46pm Tue 26 Aug 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars?
As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place.
I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?
Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars? As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place. I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing? Dilligaf2010
  • Score: -3

8:05pm Tue 26 Aug 14

grandconjuration says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars?
As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place.
I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?
"there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence"

The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit.
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars? As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place. I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?[/p][/quote]"there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence" The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit. grandconjuration
  • Score: 6

8:20pm Tue 26 Aug 14

grandconjuration says...

Rule 145 of the Highway Code:

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34

Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34:

If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence.

I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence.

Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners.

Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.
Rule 145 of the Highway Code: You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency. Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34 Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34: If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence. I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence. Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners. Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad. grandconjuration
  • Score: 4

8:31pm Tue 26 Aug 14

mytaxes says...

John Tanner's wheelie bin is the problem.
John Tanner's wheelie bin is the problem. mytaxes
  • Score: 1

9:39pm Tue 26 Aug 14

xenarthra says...

HomerSimpsonDoh wrote:
The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest
The story is about hazards on the road.
[quote][p][bold]HomerSimpsonDoh[/bold] wrote: The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest[/p][/quote]The story is about hazards on the road. xenarthra
  • Score: 0

9:44pm Tue 26 Aug 14

xenarthra says...

grandconjuration wrote:
Rule 145 of the Highway Code:

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34

Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34:

If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence.

I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence.

Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners.

Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.
"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34

So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement.

Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime.
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: Rule 145 of the Highway Code: You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency. Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34 Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34: If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence. I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence. Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners. Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.[/p][/quote]"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34 So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement. Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime. xenarthra
  • Score: -5

10:05pm Tue 26 Aug 14

Major Rhode-Werks says...

mytaxes wrote:
John Tanner's wheelie bin is the problem.
Him, not his wheelie bin
[quote][p][bold]mytaxes[/bold] wrote: John Tanner's wheelie bin is the problem.[/p][/quote]Him, not his wheelie bin Major Rhode-Werks
  • Score: -3

10:06pm Tue 26 Aug 14

Major Rhode-Werks says...

mytaxes wrote:
John Tanner's wheelie bin is the problem.
Him, not his wheelie bin
[quote][p][bold]mytaxes[/bold] wrote: John Tanner's wheelie bin is the problem.[/p][/quote]Him, not his wheelie bin Major Rhode-Werks
  • Score: -3

10:50pm Tue 26 Aug 14

grandconjuration says...

xenarthra wrote:
grandconjuration wrote:
Rule 145 of the Highway Code:

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34

Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34:

If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence.

I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence.

Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners.

Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.
"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34

So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement.

Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime.
Incorrect. In the Road Traffic Act, the pavement or footway is defined as being part of the road and not adjacent land. It is quite clear when it states...

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
[quote][p][bold]xenarthra[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: Rule 145 of the Highway Code: You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency. Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34 Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34: If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence. I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence. Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners. Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.[/p][/quote]"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34 So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement. Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime.[/p][/quote]Incorrect. In the Road Traffic Act, the pavement or footway is defined as being part of the road and not adjacent land. It is quite clear when it states... You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency. grandconjuration
  • Score: 2

7:03am Wed 27 Aug 14

Andrew:Oxford says...

Just looking at the picture, it's also quite easy to see how residents are abusing vulnerable people by failing to maintain trees and hedges to the boundary.

Local councillors should be out and knocking on doors to demand this abuse ends.
Just looking at the picture, it's also quite easy to see how residents are abusing vulnerable people by failing to maintain trees and hedges to the boundary. Local councillors should be out and knocking on doors to demand this abuse ends. Andrew:Oxford
  • Score: 5

7:53am Wed 27 Aug 14

Joe Chapman says...

One of the messages I'm getting here is that if no-one dies it's OK. Is that right?

No excuses, people who park their vehicles and people who ride bicycles on the pavement are selfish, inconsiderate wazzocks.
One of the messages I'm getting here is that if no-one dies it's OK. Is that right? No excuses, people who park their vehicles and people who ride bicycles on the pavement are selfish, inconsiderate wazzocks. Joe Chapman
  • Score: -3

8:04am Wed 27 Aug 14

Joe Chapman says...

Sorry, false start there, I don't mean all people who park on pavements, some do so through no choice and do so with reasonable consideration. The problem of people obstructing the pavement so much that it becomes difficult to pass for elderly, those with pushchairs or wheelchairs, are the main problem.

In my area the hotspots are places like Marshall Road where it'll be blocked on one side at one end then blocked on the other side at the other end. Then get onto Hollow Way and find yourself faced with cyclists on the pavement, congestion on one side of the street and speeding on the other side. All the people who whinge about feeling unsafe on the road, put to shame by the little old lady who rides her bike on the road perfectly safely during morning traffic every day. And yes, this has everything to do with the issue and its not just about death statistics. What we have here is a load of people treating each other very badly and sadly it seems to be driving that is at the heart of the problem. We are being made dependent on driving, it's not a luxury or even a choice for most people any more. It's partly our councils to blame too for allowing a situation where local facilities such as schools are no longer local, there's a need to drive to them . Many factors have come together to form a society where driving through a road as fast as possible and parking your car quickly, are the most important things on people's minds than the safety and comfort and other people. The people that have to live along these roads are either not even considered or worse.
Sorry, false start there, I don't mean all people who park on pavements, some do so through no choice and do so with reasonable consideration. The problem of people obstructing the pavement so much that it becomes difficult to pass for elderly, those with pushchairs or wheelchairs, are the main problem. In my area the hotspots are places like Marshall Road where it'll be blocked on one side at one end then blocked on the other side at the other end. Then get onto Hollow Way and find yourself faced with cyclists on the pavement, congestion on one side of the street and speeding on the other side. All the people who whinge about feeling unsafe on the road, put to shame by the little old lady who rides her bike on the road perfectly safely during morning traffic every day. And yes, this has everything to do with the issue and its not just about death statistics. What we have here is a load of people treating each other very badly and sadly it seems to be driving that is at the heart of the problem. We are being made dependent on driving, it's not a luxury or even a choice for most people any more. It's partly our councils to blame too for allowing a situation where local facilities such as schools are no longer local, there's a need to drive to them . Many factors have come together to form a society where driving through a road as fast as possible and parking your car quickly, are the most important things on people's minds than the safety and comfort and other people. The people that have to live along these roads are either not even considered or worse. Joe Chapman
  • Score: 0

8:11am Wed 27 Aug 14

Joe Chapman says...

pun-jabi wrote:
From the picture it looks to me that the wheelie bin is the biggest problem not the parked cars who form some protection from thru traffic for the Lady.
Oh sorry! I got it wrong, actually, cars parked on the pavement are our friends! They are selflessly parked there to protect people who need protecting from the nasty people who drive their cars on the pavement. Which, to be fair, does indeed happen, normally because someone has been inconsiderate to someone else because they want to get somewhere faster because they are more important than everyone else. Get out of my way! I'm not in your way! Yes you are! No, I'm not, you're a car or cycle on the pavement, you have no way.

It's fine though 'cos x amount of people die from y every year. Right, the gents toilets are full, I'm off to use the ladies, it's fine, just remember, somewhere else, someone is dying.
[quote][p][bold]pun-jabi[/bold] wrote: From the picture it looks to me that the wheelie bin is the biggest problem not the parked cars who form some protection from thru traffic for the Lady.[/p][/quote]Oh sorry! I got it wrong, actually, cars parked on the pavement are our friends! They are selflessly parked there to protect people who need protecting from the nasty people who drive their cars on the pavement. Which, to be fair, does indeed happen, normally because someone has been inconsiderate to someone else because they want to get somewhere faster because they are more important than everyone else. Get out of my way! I'm not in your way! Yes you are! No, I'm not, you're a car or cycle on the pavement, you have no way. It's fine though 'cos x amount of people die from y every year. Right, the gents toilets are full, I'm off to use the ladies, it's fine, just remember, somewhere else, someone is dying. Joe Chapman
  • Score: -2

8:15am Wed 27 Aug 14

Joe Chapman says...

Andrew:Oxford wrote:
Just looking at the picture, it's also quite easy to see how residents are abusing vulnerable people by failing to maintain trees and hedges to the boundary.

Local councillors should be out and knocking on doors to demand this abuse ends.
Yeah good point. When you see one of those offending bushes, make sure you park your car on the pavement right next to it too, that way it'll be the owner of the bush's fault and not yours if someone can't pass.
[quote][p][bold]Andrew:Oxford[/bold] wrote: Just looking at the picture, it's also quite easy to see how residents are abusing vulnerable people by failing to maintain trees and hedges to the boundary. Local councillors should be out and knocking on doors to demand this abuse ends.[/p][/quote]Yeah good point. When you see one of those offending bushes, make sure you park your car on the pavement right next to it too, that way it'll be the owner of the bush's fault and not yours if someone can't pass. Joe Chapman
  • Score: -2

8:16am Wed 27 Aug 14

Joe Chapman says...

grandconjuration wrote:
HomerSimpsonDoh wrote:
The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest
Any evidence for that?

Every year, 40-60 pedestrians are killed by motor vehicles while walking on a pavement. That's roughly one per week.

The number of pedestrians killed by cyclists on the pavement is approximately 0 per annum.

Let's focus on the real danger.
Stairs! We need to ban stairs or ban people from using stairs immediately! Too many people DIE as a result of stairs. They are EVIL!
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HomerSimpsonDoh[/bold] wrote: The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest[/p][/quote]Any evidence for that? Every year, 40-60 pedestrians are killed by motor vehicles while walking on a pavement. That's roughly one per week. The number of pedestrians killed by cyclists on the pavement is approximately 0 per annum. Let's focus on the real danger.[/p][/quote]Stairs! We need to ban stairs or ban people from using stairs immediately! Too many people DIE as a result of stairs. They are EVIL! Joe Chapman
  • Score: -2

8:20am Wed 27 Aug 14

Joe Chapman says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars?
As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place.
I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?
**** it! I've run out of other things to blame or distract away from the basic point: pedestrians, whoever they are, are the priority as regards pavement use and should not be forced into walking on the road.

****, some inconsiderate pillock has parked on the pavement. Oh well, it's nice to have the opportunity to walk on the road squeezed between moving cars and parked cars, in that strip of road where cyclists often ride, except fortunately the cyclists are on the pavement instead. Oh. No they can't be, 'cos thankfully there are cars parked on the pavements, protecting the pavements from cyclists.
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars? As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place. I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?[/p][/quote]**** it! I've run out of other things to blame or distract away from the basic point: pedestrians, whoever they are, are the priority as regards pavement use and should not be forced into walking on the road. ****, some inconsiderate pillock has parked on the pavement. Oh well, it's nice to have the opportunity to walk on the road squeezed between moving cars and parked cars, in that strip of road where cyclists often ride, except fortunately the cyclists are on the pavement instead. Oh. No they can't be, 'cos thankfully there are cars parked on the pavements, protecting the pavements from cyclists. Joe Chapman
  • Score: 0

8:32am Wed 27 Aug 14

grandconjuration says...

Joe Chapman wrote:
grandconjuration wrote:
HomerSimpsonDoh wrote:
The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest
Any evidence for that?

Every year, 40-60 pedestrians are killed by motor vehicles while walking on a pavement. That's roughly one per week.

The number of pedestrians killed by cyclists on the pavement is approximately 0 per annum.

Let's focus on the real danger.
Stairs! We need to ban stairs or ban people from using stairs immediately! Too many people DIE as a result of stairs. They are EVIL!
You appear to have completely misunderstood my point.

This comments thread, about cars on the pavement being a hazard to pedestrians, was starting to turn into an anti-cyclist thread. This often happens whenever there is a news article pointing out poor driving.

Several comments alluded to cyclists being an equivalent or greater hazard to pedestrians when they quite clearly are not. That does not mean I endorse cycling on a pavement; the law is very clear - it is an offence to drive or cycle on a pavement.
[quote][p][bold]Joe Chapman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HomerSimpsonDoh[/bold] wrote: The story is about hazards on the pavement and cyclists are one of the biggest[/p][/quote]Any evidence for that? Every year, 40-60 pedestrians are killed by motor vehicles while walking on a pavement. That's roughly one per week. The number of pedestrians killed by cyclists on the pavement is approximately 0 per annum. Let's focus on the real danger.[/p][/quote]Stairs! We need to ban stairs or ban people from using stairs immediately! Too many people DIE as a result of stairs. They are EVIL![/p][/quote]You appear to have completely misunderstood my point. This comments thread, about cars on the pavement being a hazard to pedestrians, was starting to turn into an anti-cyclist thread. This often happens whenever there is a news article pointing out poor driving. Several comments alluded to cyclists being an equivalent or greater hazard to pedestrians when they quite clearly are not. That does not mean I endorse cycling on a pavement; the law is very clear - it is an offence to drive or cycle on a pavement. grandconjuration
  • Score: 4

9:07am Wed 27 Aug 14

Bicester retired says...

I think that most motorists do not want to park on footpath but the fact is that many side roads are so narrow in Oxford that large vehicles will find it hard to go through with all the parked cars on the road. Look at the car parking spaces at some side streets between Cowley and St. Clement. Some parking spaces are actually marked over the footpath.

Motorists always face a dilemma when parking on a narrow street, either blocking the pedestrians by parking on the footpath or blocking large vehicles by parking on the road.
I think that most motorists do not want to park on footpath but the fact is that many side roads are so narrow in Oxford that large vehicles will find it hard to go through with all the parked cars on the road. Look at the car parking spaces at some side streets between Cowley and St. Clement. Some parking spaces are actually marked over the footpath. Motorists always face a dilemma when parking on a narrow street, either blocking the pedestrians by parking on the footpath or blocking large vehicles by parking on the road. Bicester retired
  • Score: 3

11:00am Wed 27 Aug 14

Floflo says...

Bicester retired wrote:
I think that most motorists do not want to park on footpath but the fact is that many side roads are so narrow in Oxford that large vehicles will find it hard to go through with all the parked cars on the road. Look at the car parking spaces at some side streets between Cowley and St. Clement. Some parking spaces are actually marked over the footpath.

Motorists always face a dilemma when parking on a narrow street, either blocking the pedestrians by parking on the footpath or blocking large vehicles by parking on the road.
It's not really a dilemma. If you block the road or the path by parking you are being inconsiderate and you need to make different arrangements.

You do have a point about parking being marked out on pavements. I don't think that space should be taken from pedestrians to make either car parking spaces or budget cycle lanes.
[quote][p][bold]Bicester retired[/bold] wrote: I think that most motorists do not want to park on footpath but the fact is that many side roads are so narrow in Oxford that large vehicles will find it hard to go through with all the parked cars on the road. Look at the car parking spaces at some side streets between Cowley and St. Clement. Some parking spaces are actually marked over the footpath. Motorists always face a dilemma when parking on a narrow street, either blocking the pedestrians by parking on the footpath or blocking large vehicles by parking on the road.[/p][/quote]It's not really a dilemma. If you block the road or the path by parking you are being inconsiderate and you need to make different arrangements. You do have a point about parking being marked out on pavements. I don't think that space should be taken from pedestrians to make either car parking spaces or budget cycle lanes. Floflo
  • Score: -3

11:22am Wed 27 Aug 14

carli says...

xenarthra wrote:
carli wrote:
Poor lady, another danger is cyclists on pavements....things have to be done to stop pavements becoming dangerous places.
Another danger is pianos falling on your head. What have cyclists got to do with this story?! Nothing at all!

But I agree that drivers should park as considerately as possible, given the very limited capacity of many our roads and pavements.
I was only saying at how dangerous pavements are these days...but thanks for warning me about the pianos that might fall on my head...will this happen when I am on a pavement too??? Gosh it's more dangerous out there than I thought.
[quote][p][bold]xenarthra[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carli[/bold] wrote: Poor lady, another danger is cyclists on pavements....things have to be done to stop pavements becoming dangerous places.[/p][/quote]Another danger is pianos falling on your head. What have cyclists got to do with this story?! Nothing at all! But I agree that drivers should park as considerately as possible, given the very limited capacity of many our roads and pavements.[/p][/quote]I was only saying at how dangerous pavements are these days...but thanks for warning me about the pianos that might fall on my head...will this happen when I am on a pavement too??? Gosh it's more dangerous out there than I thought. carli
  • Score: 1

12:27pm Wed 27 Aug 14

King Joke says...

EMBOX2 wrote:
Absolutely terrible and agree 100% with the lady, however Oxford was not designed for cars, and the sheer number of students with cars now is a major problem on side streets off Abingdon Rd and many others.

If everyone parked on the road, no traffic would get through, and so the only solution is to provide very low-cost, secure long term parking for Oxford residents who only use their cars once in a blue moon.
It's not the only solution - if you only need a car 'once in a blue moon', eg once a week for a shopping trip, then you should be able to hire one from a car club. It will save you money, too.

THe City or County should set up more car clubs, and get tough with pavement parkers.

Also I'd suggest the next time Ellen comes across a car on the pavement, she drags her white stick along the paintwork just to make sure she knows where it is.
[quote][p][bold]EMBOX2[/bold] wrote: Absolutely terrible and agree 100% with the lady, however Oxford was not designed for cars, and the sheer number of students with cars now is a major problem on side streets off Abingdon Rd and many others. If everyone parked on the road, no traffic would get through, and so the only solution is to provide very low-cost, secure long term parking for Oxford residents who only use their cars once in a blue moon.[/p][/quote]It's not the only solution - if you only need a car 'once in a blue moon', eg once a week for a shopping trip, then you should be able to hire one from a car club. It will save you money, too. THe City or County should set up more car clubs, and get tough with pavement parkers. Also I'd suggest the next time Ellen comes across a car on the pavement, she drags her white stick along the paintwork just to make sure she knows where it is. King Joke
  • Score: 0

12:45pm Wed 27 Aug 14

xenarthra says...

grandconjuration wrote:
xenarthra wrote:
grandconjuration wrote:
Rule 145 of the Highway Code:

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34

Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34:

If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence.

I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence.

Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners.

Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.
"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34

So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement.

Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime.
Incorrect. In the Road Traffic Act, the pavement or footway is defined as being part of the road and not adjacent land. It is quite clear when it states...

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
The pavement is undeniably land within 15 yards of a road. The pavement may also be a road, but that is irrelevant. The exception applies.
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]xenarthra[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: Rule 145 of the Highway Code: You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency. Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34 Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34: If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence. I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence. Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners. Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.[/p][/quote]"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34 So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement. Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime.[/p][/quote]Incorrect. In the Road Traffic Act, the pavement or footway is defined as being part of the road and not adjacent land. It is quite clear when it states... You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.[/p][/quote]The pavement is undeniably land within 15 yards of a road. The pavement may also be a road, but that is irrelevant. The exception applies. xenarthra
  • Score: 0

12:48pm Wed 27 Aug 14

xenarthra says...

grandconjuration wrote:
xenarthra wrote:
grandconjuration wrote:
Rule 145 of the Highway Code:

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34

Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34:

If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence.

I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence.

Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners.

Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.
"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34

So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement.

Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime.
Incorrect. In the Road Traffic Act, the pavement or footway is defined as being part of the road and not adjacent land. It is quite clear when it states...

You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.
Your quotation is not taken from the RTA. It is a rough summary taken from the Highway Code. The ambiguous phrase "to gain lawful access to property" is not in the law.
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]xenarthra[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: Rule 145 of the Highway Code: You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency. Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & RTA 1988 sect 34 Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 34: If without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle (a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or (b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway, he is guilty of an offence. I fail to see how motor vehicles can park on a pavement without driving on it. Therefore, the driver of every single car parked on the pavement has committed an offence. Why is this not enforced by the Police? All motor vehicle are registered; fine the owners. Maybe it's about time car ownership was restricted to those that can provide off-road storage of their vehicle. I don't expect the council to provide me with cheap/free land to store any of my private possessions, so why is a car any different? I'd quite like a helicopter, but haven't the space for one, yet I don't expect the council to provide me with a helipad.[/p][/quote]"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land." - RTA 1988 s.34 So I may drive on the pavement in order to park on the pavement. Parking on the pavement is illegal in London. It is not illegal anywhere else. It can certainly be antisocial, but the police would struggle to secure a conviction for an inferred act which they haven't witness and which is not even clearly a crime.[/p][/quote]Incorrect. In the Road Traffic Act, the pavement or footway is defined as being part of the road and not adjacent land. It is quite clear when it states... You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency.[/p][/quote]Your quotation is not taken from the RTA. It is a rough summary taken from the Highway Code. The ambiguous phrase "to gain lawful access to property" is not in the law. xenarthra
  • Score: 0

11:29am Thu 28 Aug 14

yabbadabbadoo256 says...

Looking at that picture I would say that Wheely bin (and many others) are causing the most problems!
Looking at that picture I would say that Wheely bin (and many others) are causing the most problems! yabbadabbadoo256
  • Score: 0

12:47pm Thu 28 Aug 14

grandconjuration says...

yabbadabbadoo256 wrote:
Looking at that picture I would say that Wheely bin (and many others) are causing the most problems!
The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit.
[quote][p][bold]yabbadabbadoo256[/bold] wrote: Looking at that picture I would say that Wheely bin (and many others) are causing the most problems![/p][/quote]The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit. grandconjuration
  • Score: 0

11:09pm Thu 28 Aug 14

Oxhiker says...

How appalling that any of us should be forced to move through space like this in 2014. I can't see why we shouldn't adopt Ellen's solution of always having one pavement completely car-free so that pedestrians can negotiate their way in safety and car owners don't need to fear their cars will be clipped by passing traffic. John Tanner should think hard about his duty to represent all sections of our community before dismissing the suggestion out of hand.
How appalling that any of us should be forced to move through space like this in 2014. I can't see why we shouldn't adopt Ellen's solution of always having one pavement completely car-free so that pedestrians can negotiate their way in safety and car owners don't need to fear their cars will be clipped by passing traffic. John Tanner should think hard about his duty to represent all sections of our community before dismissing the suggestion out of hand. Oxhiker
  • Score: 0

6:39pm Fri 29 Aug 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

grandconjuration wrote:
Dilligaf2010 wrote:
Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars?
As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place.
I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?
"there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence"

The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit.
Well it's pretty obvious that it wasn't taken when she was hit, but if that's how much space is left when people park their cars, which I would imagine it is, there's still no problem.
A lot of streets in Oxford have insufficient space for parking, whether on the carriageway, in bays, or with wheels on the pavement, so this is usually the only option, in order to leave enough space for emergency vehicles etc. to get through.
Either way, it still doesn't explain why she chose to walk along the centre of the road?
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars? As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place. I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?[/p][/quote]"there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence" The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit.[/p][/quote]Well it's pretty obvious that it wasn't taken when she was hit, but if that's how much space is left when people park their cars, which I would imagine it is, there's still no problem. A lot of streets in Oxford have insufficient space for parking, whether on the carriageway, in bays, or with wheels on the pavement, so this is usually the only option, in order to leave enough space for emergency vehicles etc. to get through. Either way, it still doesn't explain why she chose to walk along the centre of the road? Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 0

9:29pm Fri 29 Aug 14

Oxhiker says...

Dilligaf2010 wrote:
grandconjuration wrote:
Dilligaf2010 wrote:
Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars?
As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place.
I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?
"there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence"

The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit.
Well it's pretty obvious that it wasn't taken when she was hit, but if that's how much space is left when people park their cars, which I would imagine it is, there's still no problem.
A lot of streets in Oxford have insufficient space for parking, whether on the carriageway, in bays, or with wheels on the pavement, so this is usually the only option, in order to leave enough space for emergency vehicles etc. to get through.
Either way, it still doesn't explain why she chose to walk along the centre of the road?
My friend is also blind and so perhaps I can help you understand. From looking at the picture, Ellen is using a long cane. In order to work a long cane, the user sweeps it out in oscillating movements to flag up any potential hazards ahead. This technique requires a degree of space which may not be available where the pathway is very encumbered and, in any case, once she discovers an obstacle, she has to walk around it. Can you imagine what it must be like to find yourself stuck between a car, a bin and overhanging foliage, not knowing where to turn? The whole point of her story is that she doesn't *want* to walk on the road and I don't know any disabled person who would. My friend is a guide dog user and even the guide dogs cannot often negotiate the route in Oxford-they have been trained to sit still if they cannot 'find the way' (which is an actual command). Their blind owner then is left to call out for help to any passers by, presuming there are any.
[quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dilligaf2010[/bold] wrote: Why walk in the middle of the road, rather than adjacent to the cars? As somebody else has pointed out, there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence, so I can't understand why she chose to walk in the road rather than on the path in the first place. I think there's more to this story, one question would be, was the driver not checking their mirrors whilst reversing?[/p][/quote]"there appears to be plenty of room between the cars and the wall/fence" The photograph is unlikely to have been taken at the time when Mrs Bassani was actually hit.[/p][/quote]Well it's pretty obvious that it wasn't taken when she was hit, but if that's how much space is left when people park their cars, which I would imagine it is, there's still no problem. A lot of streets in Oxford have insufficient space for parking, whether on the carriageway, in bays, or with wheels on the pavement, so this is usually the only option, in order to leave enough space for emergency vehicles etc. to get through. Either way, it still doesn't explain why she chose to walk along the centre of the road?[/p][/quote]My friend is also blind and so perhaps I can help you understand. From looking at the picture, Ellen is using a long cane. In order to work a long cane, the user sweeps it out in oscillating movements to flag up any potential hazards ahead. This technique requires a degree of space which may not be available where the pathway is very encumbered and, in any case, once she discovers an obstacle, she has to walk around it. Can you imagine what it must be like to find yourself stuck between a car, a bin and overhanging foliage, not knowing where to turn? The whole point of her story is that she doesn't *want* to walk on the road and I don't know any disabled person who would. My friend is a guide dog user and even the guide dogs cannot often negotiate the route in Oxford-they have been trained to sit still if they cannot 'find the way' (which is an actual command). Their blind owner then is left to call out for help to any passers by, presuming there are any. Oxhiker
  • Score: 3

6:25pm Sun 31 Aug 14

oafie says...

The problem is far too many people are self centred g..s who do not actually give a fig about anyone else, are concerned solely for their right to park where they see fit and seem unable to comprehend the view of someone else it may affect.
The problem is far too many people are self centred g..s who do not actually give a fig about anyone else, are concerned solely for their right to park where they see fit and seem unable to comprehend the view of someone else it may affect. oafie
  • Score: 1

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