Oxford MailDespair as child cyclist is killed on our roads (From Oxford Mail)

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Despair as child cyclist is killed on our roads

Oxford Mail: Honour Tomkinson Honour Tomkinson

SOMETIMES I feel optimistic about Oxford’s cycling future, but sometimes despair.

Last week left me feeling angry and hopeless as I read about the heart-rending death of a 12-year-old boy out cycling with his friends on the A420.

Reading the news saddened me to the core. What a terrible tragedy, an adult’s loss of life is bad enough, but to read of a child in collision with a car is just appalling. Why didn’t he have somewhere safe to ride and why was he sharing what is a dangerous and busy stretch of Oxfordshire’s roads with cars?

I really hope the powers that be are thinking carefully about the future. Cyclists are not going away. Far from it.

We are steadily increasing in numbers and those numbers include children. Road design in the UK must be radically rethought for all users. You don’t leave pedestrians wandering in the same vicinity as cars or heavy goods vehicles, so why cyclists?

Because they travel five mph faster than those on foot or because creating segregated cycle lanes would mean less room for motorised traffic.

It really does interest me that as cars increased in popularity, pavements were improved at the same time for pedestrians.

Why didn’t we think then that cyclists deserved some space of their own? And why now do we also see roads leading somewhere but no accompanying pavement or path? Is it assumed no-one would ever want to walk or cycle in that place again once a road for cars had been created?

The B4044 from Eynsham to Oxford is a prime example of this.

It is with regret that I also hear motorists moaning about it. Most don’t have enough intelligence to get past their angst and presume we shouldn’t be on the road because we don’t pay the same taxes. I wonder where they think we should be?

Although their argument is wrong their reasoning is the same. Because cyclists don’t have a space of their own they are forced to share the road with vehicles that are quite literally able to maim or kill them. It’s like forcing pedestrians to walk on pavements scattered with sleeping tigers.

The figures speak for themselves. Cars and cyclists don’t mix. According to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, 19,000 cyclists were killed or injured in reported road accidents in 2013. 13 children were killed while cycling and 105 adults.

If those cyclists had been on segregated cycle paths those numbers would be drastically different.

Of course you can change a junction and lower the speed limit and these are all welcome, but as I and many other cyclists know, you could just as easily install segregated cycle paths at the same time as you rip up the road for what seems yet another annual spring clean of our tarmac.

Maybe then our children will be safe while cycling.

Comments (20)

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10:38am Tue 22 Apr 14

HomerSimpsonDoh says...

Very sad it is, but you should not take his death and use it to further your cause. You can not have 'safe crossings along every road, you can not make everywhere sagfe to ride..Sometimes it's fact that there is just no room for seperate cycle lanes. If a road is narrow there is nothing you can do about it and just accept it. The B4044 Eynsham road is a prime example. Unless your going to spend millions on making the road wider there is no other option. New roads built can have this option, and it's no good comparing other european countries to us as they have a larger area for this option, we are a crowded island with small roads in crowded cities.
Cyclists have to start taking responsibility for their own actions at times and if a road narrows then be aware of this, don't just carrying on cycling as nothing as changed. Drivers have to adapt to different road conditions and layouts, cyclists need to as well.
Very sad it is, but you should not take his death and use it to further your cause. You can not have 'safe crossings along every road, you can not make everywhere sagfe to ride..Sometimes it's fact that there is just no room for seperate cycle lanes. If a road is narrow there is nothing you can do about it and just accept it. The B4044 Eynsham road is a prime example. Unless your going to spend millions on making the road wider there is no other option. New roads built can have this option, and it's no good comparing other european countries to us as they have a larger area for this option, we are a crowded island with small roads in crowded cities. Cyclists have to start taking responsibility for their own actions at times and if a road narrows then be aware of this, don't just carrying on cycling as nothing as changed. Drivers have to adapt to different road conditions and layouts, cyclists need to as well. HomerSimpsonDoh
  • Score: 2

11:18am Tue 22 Apr 14

Floflo says...

HomerSimpsonDoh wrote:
Very sad it is, but you should not take his death and use it to further your cause. You can not have 'safe crossings along every road, you can not make everywhere sagfe to ride..Sometimes it's fact that there is just no room for seperate cycle lanes. If a road is narrow there is nothing you can do about it and just accept it. The B4044 Eynsham road is a prime example. Unless your going to spend millions on making the road wider there is no other option. New roads built can have this option, and it's no good comparing other european countries to us as they have a larger area for this option, we are a crowded island with small roads in crowded cities.
Cyclists have to start taking responsibility for their own actions at times and if a road narrows then be aware of this, don't just carrying on cycling as nothing as changed. Drivers have to adapt to different road conditions and layouts, cyclists need to as well.
You object to using a death to further a cause? Perhaps you should re-read your post.
[quote][p][bold]HomerSimpsonDoh[/bold] wrote: Very sad it is, but you should not take his death and use it to further your cause. You can not have 'safe crossings along every road, you can not make everywhere sagfe to ride..Sometimes it's fact that there is just no room for seperate cycle lanes. If a road is narrow there is nothing you can do about it and just accept it. The B4044 Eynsham road is a prime example. Unless your going to spend millions on making the road wider there is no other option. New roads built can have this option, and it's no good comparing other european countries to us as they have a larger area for this option, we are a crowded island with small roads in crowded cities. Cyclists have to start taking responsibility for their own actions at times and if a road narrows then be aware of this, don't just carrying on cycling as nothing as changed. Drivers have to adapt to different road conditions and layouts, cyclists need to as well.[/p][/quote]You object to using a death to further a cause? Perhaps you should re-read your post. Floflo
  • Score: 9

11:33am Tue 22 Apr 14

HomerSimpsonDoh says...

Don't use it as an excuse when we do not not know what was to blame and has very little to do what the cause is. Thats like saying that someone got stabbed so we should ban all knives from use.
Don't use it as an excuse when we do not not know what was to blame and has very little to do what the cause is. Thats like saying that someone got stabbed so we should ban all knives from use. HomerSimpsonDoh
  • Score: 6

11:48am Tue 22 Apr 14

Major Rhode-Werks says...

I expect we will now have plenty of comments from cyclists having a go at motorists and vice versa. Of course cyclists want improvements to make their journeys safer and easier. Likewise motorists want their journeys made quicker and easier and don't want to sit in traffic jams. Unfortunately utopia will never arrive so the sooner motorists (of which I am one) learn to co-exist with cyclists and watch out for the odd cyclist who decides to overtake another cyclists (or move out to avoid a pothole or puddle) without even a glance behind, the sooner the better. If, as a motorist, you are aware of what is going on all around rather than just looking at the car in front then these events can easily be predicted. Likewise cyclist (of which I am an occasional one) need to learn to be aware of what is going on around and behind them before they manoeuvre without warning. Obviously there are occasions when cyclists wander unnoticed into a large vehicle's blindspot and until something is done to eliminate these spots, which can't be that hard to do, this will always happen.
A for getting more people on to bikes, I think that is always going to be a battle considering our weather (I know, I know, they have bad weather in Holland too). I'm at the age where I don't want to start battling horizontal rain and gales, or for that matter, light rain, headwinds, and cold, or to arrive sweaty in the decent weather, so I will continue to do my journey to work in my warm comfortable car. Incidentally journey times from home to work are: car 15-20 mins in safety; bus 40 mins in safety apart from catching something from that person coughing everywhere; cycle 20-25mins with several scary moments. So to sum up, I'm an oddball who prefers his car but want's improvements for cyclists.
I expect we will now have plenty of comments from cyclists having a go at motorists and vice versa. Of course cyclists want improvements to make their journeys safer and easier. Likewise motorists want their journeys made quicker and easier and don't want to sit in traffic jams. Unfortunately utopia will never arrive so the sooner motorists (of which I am one) learn to co-exist with cyclists and watch out for the odd cyclist who decides to overtake another cyclists (or move out to avoid a pothole or puddle) without even a glance behind, the sooner the better. If, as a motorist, you are aware of what is going on all around rather than just looking at the car in front then these events can easily be predicted. Likewise cyclist (of which I am an occasional one) need to learn to be aware of what is going on around and behind them before they manoeuvre without warning. Obviously there are occasions when cyclists wander unnoticed into a large vehicle's blindspot and until something is done to eliminate these spots, which can't be that hard to do, this will always happen. A for getting more people on to bikes, I think that is always going to be a battle considering our weather (I know, I know, they have bad weather in Holland too). I'm at the age where I don't want to start battling horizontal rain and gales, or for that matter, light rain, headwinds, and cold, or to arrive sweaty in the decent weather, so I will continue to do my journey to work in my warm comfortable car. Incidentally journey times from home to work are: car 15-20 mins in safety; bus 40 mins in safety apart from catching something from that person coughing everywhere; cycle 20-25mins with several scary moments. So to sum up, I'm an oddball who prefers his car but want's improvements for cyclists. Major Rhode-Werks
  • Score: 18

12:14pm Tue 22 Apr 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, make the Cycling Proficiency Test compulsory for all!
I did mine in 1969 or 1970, when there were far fewer vehicles on the road, and it's paid dividends ever since.
Yes I'm a driver, and a cyclist, and have seen plenty of examples of each that leave me wondering how they're still alive.
I agree with Honour, cyclists have to share space with vehicles that can maim, or kill, them but it's been that way for eons, all that's really changed is the quantity of each, and people's attitudes.
And adult is going to have better spacial awareness than a child, and is also going to be more able to judge speeds, and hopefully have an indication of what a vehicle is likely to do within the next few moments.
A child isn't going to know that some motorists (especially BMW drivers) are too lazy to indicate, and that if the front of a vehicle is dipping down, the driver is slowing, very possibly to turn into a drive or junction, so may be completely unaware of an imminent risk.
The Cycling Proficiency Test could save so many lives, at a fraction of the cost of redesigning the Nation's infrastructure, although having used the shared cycle/foot paths on the continent, I'm all for them, they're usually smoother than the roads, and much cheaper to resurface :-)
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, make the Cycling Proficiency Test compulsory for all! I did mine in 1969 or 1970, when there were far fewer vehicles on the road, and it's paid dividends ever since. Yes I'm a driver, and a cyclist, and have seen plenty of examples of each that leave me wondering how they're still alive. I agree with Honour, cyclists have to share space with vehicles that can maim, or kill, them but it's been that way for eons, all that's really changed is the quantity of each, and people's attitudes. And adult is going to have better spacial awareness than a child, and is also going to be more able to judge speeds, and hopefully have an indication of what a vehicle is likely to do within the next few moments. A child isn't going to know that some motorists (especially BMW drivers) are too lazy to indicate, and that if the front of a vehicle is dipping down, the driver is slowing, very possibly to turn into a drive or junction, so may be completely unaware of an imminent risk. The Cycling Proficiency Test could save so many lives, at a fraction of the cost of redesigning the Nation's infrastructure, although having used the shared cycle/foot paths on the continent, I'm all for them, they're usually smoother than the roads, and much cheaper to resurface :-) Dilligaf2010
  • Score: 14

12:39pm Tue 22 Apr 14

grandconjuration says...

This article is insensitive and in poor taste.

I understand and agree with some of the sentiment. However, using the death of a child to make your point, when no details of the incident have been made public?

Not Honour's finest hour.
This article is insensitive and in poor taste. I understand and agree with some of the sentiment. However, using the death of a child to make your point, when no details of the incident have been made public? Not Honour's finest hour. grandconjuration
  • Score: 16

3:48pm Tue 22 Apr 14

Dilligaf2010 says...

Major Rhode-Werks wrote:
I expect we will now have plenty of comments from cyclists having a go at motorists and vice versa. Of course cyclists want improvements to make their journeys safer and easier. Likewise motorists want their journeys made quicker and easier and don't want to sit in traffic jams. Unfortunately utopia will never arrive so the sooner motorists (of which I am one) learn to co-exist with cyclists and watch out for the odd cyclist who decides to overtake another cyclists (or move out to avoid a pothole or puddle) without even a glance behind, the sooner the better. If, as a motorist, you are aware of what is going on all around rather than just looking at the car in front then these events can easily be predicted. Likewise cyclist (of which I am an occasional one) need to learn to be aware of what is going on around and behind them before they manoeuvre without warning. Obviously there are occasions when cyclists wander unnoticed into a large vehicle's blindspot and until something is done to eliminate these spots, which can't be that hard to do, this will always happen.
A for getting more people on to bikes, I think that is always going to be a battle considering our weather (I know, I know, they have bad weather in Holland too). I'm at the age where I don't want to start battling horizontal rain and gales, or for that matter, light rain, headwinds, and cold, or to arrive sweaty in the decent weather, so I will continue to do my journey to work in my warm comfortable car. Incidentally journey times from home to work are: car 15-20 mins in safety; bus 40 mins in safety apart from catching something from that person coughing everywhere; cycle 20-25mins with several scary moments. So to sum up, I'm an oddball who prefers his car but want's improvements for cyclists.
"Obviously there are occasions when cyclists wander unnoticed into a large vehicle's blindspot and until something is done to eliminate these spots, which can't be that hard to do, this will always happen"........
........why the need to eliminate the blind spots? The cycling proficiency test would advise cyclists to always stay in view of a driver's mirrors, common sense should tell someone that if they can't see the driver (or their reflection) then they can't see them.....
[quote][p][bold]Major Rhode-Werks[/bold] wrote: I expect we will now have plenty of comments from cyclists having a go at motorists and vice versa. Of course cyclists want improvements to make their journeys safer and easier. Likewise motorists want their journeys made quicker and easier and don't want to sit in traffic jams. Unfortunately utopia will never arrive so the sooner motorists (of which I am one) learn to co-exist with cyclists and watch out for the odd cyclist who decides to overtake another cyclists (or move out to avoid a pothole or puddle) without even a glance behind, the sooner the better. If, as a motorist, you are aware of what is going on all around rather than just looking at the car in front then these events can easily be predicted. Likewise cyclist (of which I am an occasional one) need to learn to be aware of what is going on around and behind them before they manoeuvre without warning. Obviously there are occasions when cyclists wander unnoticed into a large vehicle's blindspot and until something is done to eliminate these spots, which can't be that hard to do, this will always happen. A for getting more people on to bikes, I think that is always going to be a battle considering our weather (I know, I know, they have bad weather in Holland too). I'm at the age where I don't want to start battling horizontal rain and gales, or for that matter, light rain, headwinds, and cold, or to arrive sweaty in the decent weather, so I will continue to do my journey to work in my warm comfortable car. Incidentally journey times from home to work are: car 15-20 mins in safety; bus 40 mins in safety apart from catching something from that person coughing everywhere; cycle 20-25mins with several scary moments. So to sum up, I'm an oddball who prefers his car but want's improvements for cyclists.[/p][/quote]"Obviously there are occasions when cyclists wander unnoticed into a large vehicle's blindspot and until something is done to eliminate these spots, which can't be that hard to do, this will always happen"........ ........why the need to eliminate the blind spots? The cycling proficiency test would advise cyclists to always stay in view of a driver's mirrors, common sense should tell someone that if they can't see the driver (or their reflection) then they can't see them..... Dilligaf2010
  • Score: -3

4:16pm Tue 22 Apr 14

Deadwoodward says...

I personally would not cycle anywhere in towns.
It only takes one careless motorist, or lorry, or bus to forget you are there and you are in casualty.
I personally would not cycle anywhere in towns. It only takes one careless motorist, or lorry, or bus to forget you are there and you are in casualty. Deadwoodward
  • Score: -4

4:21pm Tue 22 Apr 14

HomerSimpsonDoh says...

Deadwoodward wrote:
I personally would not cycle anywhere in towns.
It only takes one careless motorist, or lorry, or bus to forget you are there and you are in casualty.
you forgot to add ' It only take one careless cyclist to forget where they are and you are a casualty!!'
[quote][p][bold]Deadwoodward[/bold] wrote: I personally would not cycle anywhere in towns. It only takes one careless motorist, or lorry, or bus to forget you are there and you are in casualty.[/p][/quote]you forgot to add ' It only take one careless cyclist to forget where they are and you are a casualty!!' HomerSimpsonDoh
  • Score: -9

4:32pm Tue 22 Apr 14

swalker260 says...

Having to drive in Oxford City to do my job there I see good and bad road sense in both
Motorists who don't give enough space for cyclists and indicate late if you are lucky, Oxford has a large amount of cyclists and some cycle through red lights, pull out of junctions onto main roads and will try to pass you on the inside while waiting at lights which is not a good idea at any time.
We are all not perfect drivers but a cyclist will always come of worse so we should try to take care when passing them
The only concern I have always had is the dedicated cycle paths on footways, while I understand it is safer for a lot of cyclists, children may have no experience of cycling on a city road and that is why, in my opinion the cycling proficiency test would be a good idea.
Having to drive in Oxford City to do my job there I see good and bad road sense in both Motorists who don't give enough space for cyclists and indicate late if you are lucky, Oxford has a large amount of cyclists and some cycle through red lights, pull out of junctions onto main roads and will try to pass you on the inside while waiting at lights which is not a good idea at any time. We are all not perfect drivers but a cyclist will always come of worse so we should try to take care when passing them The only concern I have always had is the dedicated cycle paths on footways, while I understand it is safer for a lot of cyclists, children may have no experience of cycling on a city road and that is why, in my opinion the cycling proficiency test would be a good idea. swalker260
  • Score: 4

4:38pm Tue 22 Apr 14

natox78 says...

Ah, Homer, you are way ahead of me this time. Think I will just let you rant this time and not bother with any come-backs. I've got a lot on. See you on the next cycling thread.
Ah, Homer, you are way ahead of me this time. Think I will just let you rant this time and not bother with any come-backs. I've got a lot on. See you on the next cycling thread. natox78
  • Score: 3

4:50pm Tue 22 Apr 14

oxfordbuddy says...

I do wish people would stop referring to Cycle Proficiency - it no longer exists!! However it has been replaced by a scheme called Bikeability which is backed by the government and which aims to teach awareness on the roads on a bike. It is taught to children but of course it is not properly funded so some receive training, some don't. It is also available to adults, those interested might look on the county/city council websites or consult Cyclox. It is well worth undertaking and includes consideration of road positioning, communicating with other road users, making your presence known and how to ride safely and positively.

The endless slagging off that goes on in these columns between drivers and cyclists is so depressing. Quite why those who primarily drive think it is ok to complain bitterly about cyclists and then blame them when there is an accident beats me and can only be explained as sheer carelessness. Being in charge of a powerful machine capable of killing should bring with it a sense of responsibility regardless of how others behave. Yes, some cyclists behave badly, so do some motorists as is said over and over again. Perhaps we could all just get past this and consider slowing down, calming down and treating each other as human beings who are vulnerable and fallible. Does that extra couple of seconds on your journey really matter??
I do wish people would stop referring to Cycle Proficiency - it no longer exists!! However it has been replaced by a scheme called Bikeability which is backed by the government and which aims to teach awareness on the roads on a bike. It is taught to children but of course it is not properly funded so some receive training, some don't. It is also available to adults, those interested might look on the county/city council websites or consult Cyclox. It is well worth undertaking and includes consideration of road positioning, communicating with other road users, making your presence known and how to ride safely and positively. The endless slagging off that goes on in these columns between drivers and cyclists is so depressing. Quite why those who primarily drive think it is ok to complain bitterly about cyclists and then blame them when there is an accident beats me and can only be explained as sheer carelessness. Being in charge of a powerful machine capable of killing should bring with it a sense of responsibility regardless of how others behave. Yes, some cyclists behave badly, so do some motorists as is said over and over again. Perhaps we could all just get past this and consider slowing down, calming down and treating each other as human beings who are vulnerable and fallible. Does that extra couple of seconds on your journey really matter?? oxfordbuddy
  • Score: 15

7:30pm Tue 22 Apr 14

skivvy says...

If you could put cycle paths on every road you couldn't make the cyclists use them. They don't seem to care that they are put there for their own safety.
I live in a town where children can't wear a coat to school unless it has the school logo on it, yet everyday I see children ride their bikes out of the school grounds without wearing a helmet. Perhaps the school should stop them riding bikes if they don't have the right safety equipment instead on concentrating on what coats the kids wear.
If you could put cycle paths on every road you couldn't make the cyclists use them. They don't seem to care that they are put there for their own safety. I live in a town where children can't wear a coat to school unless it has the school logo on it, yet everyday I see children ride their bikes out of the school grounds without wearing a helmet. Perhaps the school should stop them riding bikes if they don't have the right safety equipment instead on concentrating on what coats the kids wear. skivvy
  • Score: -5

7:32pm Tue 22 Apr 14

M1keez says...

oxfordbuddy wrote:
I do wish people would stop referring to Cycle Proficiency - it no longer exists!! However it has been replaced by a scheme called Bikeability which is backed by the government and which aims to teach awareness on the roads on a bike. It is taught to children but of course it is not properly funded so some receive training, some don't. It is also available to adults, those interested might look on the county/city council websites or consult Cyclox. It is well worth undertaking and includes consideration of road positioning, communicating with other road users, making your presence known and how to ride safely and positively.

The endless slagging off that goes on in these columns between drivers and cyclists is so depressing. Quite why those who primarily drive think it is ok to complain bitterly about cyclists and then blame them when there is an accident beats me and can only be explained as sheer carelessness. Being in charge of a powerful machine capable of killing should bring with it a sense of responsibility regardless of how others behave. Yes, some cyclists behave badly, so do some motorists as is said over and over again. Perhaps we could all just get past this and consider slowing down, calming down and treating each other as human beings who are vulnerable and fallible. Does that extra couple of seconds on your journey really matter??
Nail on the head oxfordbuddy. I Cycle 250 miles a week . And I agree with most comments from both party's . There are Bad cyclists and Motorists .
I cross the A420 at various points on rides to the Marlborough downs .
This poor child should not have been nowhere near that road .
Cycling Proficiency Training and the A420 should not be mentioned in the same sentence. The road is bad enough for experienced chain gangs let alone a young child. I see so many inpatient people on the road.
Got to get from A to B as quick as possible. Yes newer and better thought out roads would help . Until we change peoples attitudes and start caring and thinking about others like we used to. Things will just get worse.
I have seen and experienced some horrific behaviour and most of all anger for nothing more than holding someone up on there journey.
I drive too and see some bloody idiots on Cycles .
My thoughts are with the family . I do not know the details of the incident.
Times have changed and 12 year olds should not be near that road.
[quote][p][bold]oxfordbuddy[/bold] wrote: I do wish people would stop referring to Cycle Proficiency - it no longer exists!! However it has been replaced by a scheme called Bikeability which is backed by the government and which aims to teach awareness on the roads on a bike. It is taught to children but of course it is not properly funded so some receive training, some don't. It is also available to adults, those interested might look on the county/city council websites or consult Cyclox. It is well worth undertaking and includes consideration of road positioning, communicating with other road users, making your presence known and how to ride safely and positively. The endless slagging off that goes on in these columns between drivers and cyclists is so depressing. Quite why those who primarily drive think it is ok to complain bitterly about cyclists and then blame them when there is an accident beats me and can only be explained as sheer carelessness. Being in charge of a powerful machine capable of killing should bring with it a sense of responsibility regardless of how others behave. Yes, some cyclists behave badly, so do some motorists as is said over and over again. Perhaps we could all just get past this and consider slowing down, calming down and treating each other as human beings who are vulnerable and fallible. Does that extra couple of seconds on your journey really matter??[/p][/quote]Nail on the head oxfordbuddy. I Cycle 250 miles a week . And I agree with most comments from both party's . There are Bad cyclists and Motorists . I cross the A420 at various points on rides to the Marlborough downs . This poor child should not have been nowhere near that road . Cycling Proficiency Training and the A420 should not be mentioned in the same sentence. The road is bad enough for experienced chain gangs let alone a young child. I see so many inpatient people on the road. Got to get from A to B as quick as possible. Yes newer and better thought out roads would help . Until we change peoples attitudes and start caring and thinking about others like we used to. Things will just get worse. I have seen and experienced some horrific behaviour and most of all anger for nothing more than holding someone up on there journey. I drive too and see some bloody idiots on Cycles . My thoughts are with the family . I do not know the details of the incident. Times have changed and 12 year olds should not be near that road. M1keez
  • Score: 13

8:52pm Tue 22 Apr 14

TobyB1960 says...

It doesn't matter how many tests cyclists take, or the number of lights they have, or how visible they are, the biggest danger to cyclists are motorists. FACT!

Just look at what happen to the two cyclists killed in Purley last month, the motorist had 80 convictions, was banned from driving, no insurance and was exceeding 60 mph in a 30mph zone. This motorist will sadly be only one of approximately 450 motorists convicted this year of death by dangerous driving.
It doesn't matter how many tests cyclists take, or the number of lights they have, or how visible they are, the biggest danger to cyclists are motorists. FACT! Just look at what happen to the two cyclists killed in Purley last month, the motorist had 80 convictions, was banned from driving, no insurance and was exceeding 60 mph in a 30mph zone. This motorist will sadly be only one of approximately 450 motorists convicted this year of death by dangerous driving. TobyB1960
  • Score: 6

9:06pm Tue 22 Apr 14

Richard of Wantage says...

TobyB1960 wrote:
It doesn't matter how many tests cyclists take, or the number of lights they have, or how visible they are, the biggest danger to cyclists are motorists. FACT!

Just look at what happen to the two cyclists killed in Purley last month, the motorist had 80 convictions, was banned from driving, no insurance and was exceeding 60 mph in a 30mph zone. This motorist will sadly be only one of approximately 450 motorists convicted this year of death by dangerous driving.
Not the whole story. The guy was doing 70mph not 60mph in a 30mph area, driving a stolen car while almost two-and-a-half times over the drink-drive limit and on cocaine. Only got 10 years will be out in 5. Should of been manslaughter and 20 years for each life!
[quote][p][bold]TobyB1960[/bold] wrote: It doesn't matter how many tests cyclists take, or the number of lights they have, or how visible they are, the biggest danger to cyclists are motorists. FACT! Just look at what happen to the two cyclists killed in Purley last month, the motorist had 80 convictions, was banned from driving, no insurance and was exceeding 60 mph in a 30mph zone. This motorist will sadly be only one of approximately 450 motorists convicted this year of death by dangerous driving.[/p][/quote]Not the whole story. The guy was doing 70mph not 60mph in a 30mph area, driving a stolen car while almost two-and-a-half times over the drink-drive limit and on cocaine. Only got 10 years will be out in 5. Should of been manslaughter and 20 years for each life! Richard of Wantage
  • Score: 10

4:52pm Wed 23 Apr 14

King Joke says...

Plenty of people drive like that stone cold sober in legally-owned cars, and it's just as dangerous - so let's stop pretending it's a drink/drugs/theft problem and recognise it for what it is, an epidemic of hiss-poor and dangerous (to vulnerable road users) driving. Speed, risk and bravado are as intoxicating as drugs, and if people can't play sensibly with their car toys then they should have them taken away.
Plenty of people drive like that stone cold sober in legally-owned cars, and it's just as dangerous - so let's stop pretending it's a drink/drugs/theft problem and recognise it for what it is, an epidemic of hiss-poor and dangerous (to vulnerable road users) driving. Speed, risk and bravado are as intoxicating as drugs, and if people can't play sensibly with their car toys then they should have them taken away. King Joke
  • Score: 6

7:31pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Miss Cynical says...

grandconjuration wrote:
This article is insensitive and in poor taste.

I understand and agree with some of the sentiment. However, using the death of a child to make your point, when no details of the incident have been made public?

Not Honour's finest hour.
Absolutely. In this country, we have inquests led by a coroner to establish the causes and circumstances of unexplained or sudden deaths. It is only at this time, armed with the FACTS that people should discuss how to prevent a similar tragedy happening again. This speculation is just totally insensitive to the lad's family. We have absolutely no idea what happened.
[quote][p][bold]grandconjuration[/bold] wrote: This article is insensitive and in poor taste. I understand and agree with some of the sentiment. However, using the death of a child to make your point, when no details of the incident have been made public? Not Honour's finest hour.[/p][/quote]Absolutely. In this country, we have inquests led by a coroner to establish the causes and circumstances of unexplained or sudden deaths. It is only at this time, armed with the FACTS that people should discuss how to prevent a similar tragedy happening again. This speculation is just totally insensitive to the lad's family. We have absolutely no idea what happened. Miss Cynical
  • Score: 7

9:35pm Wed 23 Apr 14

King Joke says...

Making a point following the death of a child is no better and no worse than using this time to insist that all is rosy in the garden, we can carry on accepting roads that are not recommended for (legal) use by vulnerable users, and we don't need to do anything other than cycling proficiency. Something has to change as the status quo clearly isn't working.
Making a point following the death of a child is no better and no worse than using this time to insist that all is rosy in the garden, we can carry on accepting roads that are not recommended for (legal) use by vulnerable users, and we don't need to do anything other than cycling proficiency. Something has to change as the status quo clearly isn't working. King Joke
  • Score: 3

11:44pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Milkbutnosugarplease says...

I like Honour's dimples.
I like Honour's dimples. Milkbutnosugarplease
  • Score: -6

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